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Old 06-06-2013, 07:45 AM   #1
claude OP
Sidecar Jockey
 
Joined: Mar 2002
Location: Middleburg, Pa. (Snyder County)
Oddometer: 3,419
Car tires

As many who read this section of ADV on a regular basis know there is quite a bit of discussion regarding car their conversions to sidecar outfits. Those of us who make these conversions do so in various ways. Some with adaptors to auto wheels and some by making or converting an auto wheel to the bike. All methods work well if done properly. There can be pros and cons related to each method even though all are goood. The advantage of a car tire on a sidecar outfit is a real is real although in some cases a set of knobbies may be preferred.
Typically we do the car tire conversions on the rear of the adventure type dual sport bikes. This is unless we use a leading link which is a pratical way to add a car tire into the mix. However with the advent of Strokers system to put one on the front using the stock forks is a great thing. Stroker has done a great job with his product taking a lot of pride in his final product.
Recently I heard that some were concerned about whether car tires should be put on the front of these types of outfits. The answer yes . The question IS why not? The lack or rubber on the road with most dual sport based outfits can create an understeer situation under hard cornering or in the wet which does create tire wear on that end of the bike. More rubber on the road is a plus to help this situation out.
So, below are a series of pictures with adventure type outfits utilizing car tires in the front. Some of the builders are known world wide and are highly respected by their competitors, peirs and customers alike.
Yes, there are times when a narrow tire would do better and times when the opposite if true (front or rear). Some carry a stock wheel with a knobbie on it for those 'special occasions'.
No foul and no hassle here just wanted to try and quench the rumor that car tires are not acceptable on the front of these types of outfits.
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claude screwed with this post 06-06-2013 at 08:39 AM
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:47 AM   #2
HogWild
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Car type wheels and tires can be great for sidecars. The main negatives I've found are with the front. The flat profile of car tires on the front causes two issues:

1) If you have leading link or telescopic forks, when you turn the wheel, it causes a slight lifting of the front of the bike because the angle of the steering head, and edge of the tire are not perfectly in line. To "lift" the bike that slight amount while turning means you have to put extra force into the handlebars. That gives the feeling of heavy steering. In some circumstances it can be a bit extreme and bothersome. The wider the front tire, the worse this gets. Center hub steering does not have this problem.

2) If you’re encounter an uneven road surface, such as a lip or slight berm, when one edge of the front tire gets up on that edge, and the other side of the tire is not touching the ground, the steering will pull to one side. It makes the steering slightly twitchy sometimes when you don’t expect it.

In my case, the benefits of the car (truck on mine) tires outweighs the negatives. For the rear and side tires, the only negatives I see are weight and cost.

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Old 06-06-2013, 08:55 AM   #3
claude OP
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Agree with Scott. Yes, ther eis a camber change when steering input takes place. We prefer to run narrower car tires than many on the front as they do not have as much of an effect as wider ones. The HP outfits with the wide 195's and such on the front do tend to track along with the imperfections in the road quite a bit. It takes some getting used to especaially if the trail (caster) is way low.

Center hub steering can reduce or take away the camber curve which is prevalent from one degree to another with steering systmes coming throught the steering head as mentioned. This is more critical with very wide tires than narrower ones.
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Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:05 PM   #4
Jeff 8
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I have switched from a 15" bike tyre to a 135 car tyre recently, and am more than happy. The best thing is the extra braking grip. The wandering is not as bad as I thought it would be and strangely enough, it matters more when the sidecar wheel hits a bump or ridge than the front. When I first fitted it was terrible and I was about to go back to a bike tyre, but experimented with pressure until I settled on 26 psi in the front. Turning to full lock and giving power is an unusual feeling as the tyre climbs on to its edge, but I thing it is still grippier than a bike tyre.

This weekend will be the ultimate test, as I am going to the Alpine Rally, a mix of freeway, fast mountain roads, fast dirt roads, slow dirt roads and maybe some snow (its winter here in Aus).

Jeff

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Old 06-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #5
Boondox
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I use a car tire for the pusher on my 2010 GSA Hannigan rig and have been very happy with it. The challenge as Claude mentioned is it is very easy for the power of the GSA to brutalize the front tire in spirited mountain curves. I got 5k out of a Tourance and only 3800 out of an Anakee 2. That's problematic since my summer trip is typically 6k at a minimum.

I'm currently running a Metzeler ME 880 up front. I figured something commonly used on a heavy cruiser that goes slow and upright would do well on a hack. So far it's doing better than my last two tires, but it would be sweet to put a narrow car tire up front for long trips. Scott's concerns are noted, however, and I wonder even with Claude's mod if steering effort would take the fun out of mountain curves.

Hmmm, sure would love to hear from someone who has a leading link on a big GS.

Pete
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:30 AM   #6
guitstik
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Have not had the pleasure of putting a car tire on the front or hack yet but I have had them on the back. I never had any problems running a car tire even tho those that I rode with said that I would crash and burn and die a horrible death. I ran the pressure down to about twelve to eighteen PSI and it handled better than a bike tire. The lower tire pressure was determined because the bike did not weigh even 1/4th what a car does and there were no load forces that I could conceive of that would put the same transfer of weight as a car. I had a larger contact patch even when leaned over and could even scrape pegs without fear. I proved this to the naysayers by riding through a patch of water and making turns then measured the track. I had 30K miles on the tire and it still had the hairs on the shoulders as well as plenty of tread left, in fact it looked like a new tire but for the road grim.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:44 PM   #7
dholaday
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Hi Claude:
Would you consider a 155 a narrow or wide tire?
Hope to see you at USCA.
Thanks,
Duncan
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:32 PM   #8
Melrone
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I too run a 1658015 on the rear of my 03 GSA/Ural.And would not have any other way..I haven't done the front tire manyly due to cost..But after taking Dave Bigs rig for a jaunt a few weeks ago at the GR3 I was very impress with Strokers setup.I donb't know if I will do this,but I'm having the same fun as Boondox is finding a motorcycle tire thar gets decent mileage..I'm open for different ideals.....
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:03 PM   #9
Strong Bad
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Currently on my 2007 R1200 GSA with DMC M72D I'm running 165/80 R15 on the tug & tub, with a trail reducer lower triple clamp, and a 110/90 15 motorcycle tire up front. If I go with a 155/80 15 car tire on front (reportedly a tight fit), won't it drop the front another 1/2 inch, thus reducing my trail even more? Would that be too much of a trail reduction???
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:28 PM   #10
davebig
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Stroker's latest setup

My current adventure, I like it 145/65 Blizzak but it doesn't like narrow high crowned gravel roads, it isn't scarey but needs a steady hand on them.

My Nitto sn2 on rear a bear to mount on 3.5" rim very stiff sidewalls gave me fits on weekend with bead leak took it off bike deflated lubed beads and used lots of air I hope I got it, it doesn't look low till you down to about 16 pounds.

135/80 Nankang 145/65/15 Dunlop Graspic its a bit wider than Blizzak but a bit shorter also.

Graspic on my 1150.
I started this stuff right off hell more contact patch means more braking more steerage, this stuff can't be rocket science I did the Dedone style steering mod http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Dedone
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:18 PM   #11
Stroker
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Dedome trail mod

Dave, your Dedome type trail reducing mod works well with the bike in solo trim also. We went wth a conservitive 1/2" shortened A-arm and 1/2" lengthened lower bridge on my bike. The car wheel is mocked-up for clearance check of 155(80)R15 tire, but rode bike solo with stock front wheel at high speed and had no adverse handling issues. Steering is very precise and bike feels as if wheelbase is shorter, although it remains the same as stock. Big GS kind of feels more like my RT. Should be a huge improvement with hack attached. Thank you for the "bob-job" on my A-arm!
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Old 06-10-2013, 06:11 AM   #12
claude OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dholaday View Post
Hi Claude:
Would you consider a 155 a narrow or wide tire?
Hope to see you at USCA.
Thanks,
Duncan
No, Duncan, I would not say a 155 is a wide tire as far as wide tires go. If you are concerned about it tracking that can happen with any tire to a point although the wider tires such as the 195s and 205s will do it much more. Tread patterns and air pressures come into play. The ones with grooves around th ecircumference seem to be more of an dissue than others. Talikng morso about the front than the rear.,
Had a tentative plan to ride a customers outfit to the USCA National to deliver it to him but plans have changed. Looks like we won't be there. Our loss but we are quite busy at the shop.
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Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
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Old 06-10-2013, 07:18 PM   #13
davebig
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In a perfect world I would have ordered a LL when I had the rig built but there maybe time for that yet, I would attempt to mount 175/65 on all three corners.

Duncan Claude's pretty much laid the the up and down of tire width, my little 145/65 front is great on pavement but requires a steady hand on loose gravel roads with much crown and steers very fast, I believe I've reduced trail some more and steepened the head angle more quickening the steering, I'm amazed it's working this well.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:58 AM   #14
claude OP
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Note that when changing trail around or when switching tires , or both, it may take awhile to get used to the differnet handling of the outfit.

When trail is reduced a lot most will tend to put more steering input into it than is needed.

Different tires will track differently under various circumstances.

Much depends on how agressive a rider is..
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Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:51 PM   #15
davebig
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Tires tires tires !


From my thread 175/65 Continental wintercontact,175/65 Nitto SN2, 165/80 Nankang I am surprised that switching from the taller to shorter makes about 1.5 mph for the same engine speed.
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