2013 Kawasaki Ninja 300 vs. 2013 Honda CBR500R

[cogitate]

Originally Posted by Navin

I've had a few XR80s and 100s around for the kids and they are only less offensive because they have less stuff attached!

True, dat!


At the same time, compared to the Yamaha (one) and Kawis I have owned (three or four), the seven or eight Hondas were light years ahead in terms of fastener quality, control feel, instrumentation, fit and finish.

I am a certified Honda Geek, I admit it.

[Navin]

Originally Posted by GotMojo?

How much more does that ZX6 cost compared to the Ninja 300? Isn't it more than double the price? These "junk" bikes that everybody complains about are not made for us here in the US who have been spoiled by high end expensive bikes.... they're made for the emerging markets who have lower expectations and want (or can only afford) less expensive bikes.

Yeah, I know and I have about one other rider here who agrees that we need higher quality small displacement bikes built for the USA. I am left wanting for a higher spec 250-350cc streetbike but I am used to better built bikes that cost more. For now I'm building my Ninja 300 to be as good and as close to that bike as I can get it. I'd have rather spent more at the dealer for it with top notch suspension and fit/finish that doesn't feel like a Pep Boys moped but it's all I can get right now.


Maybe the KTM 390 will be the start of a real revolution here?

[davidji]

Originally Posted by Gryphon12

The new Duke 390 is supposed to produce peak 44 hp and 26 ft-lbs (35 Nm) of torque in a 324 lbs. wet package. Early specs suggest peak ratios of 7.6 HP/lb

You've got your units mixed-up. It's 7.4lb/hp. Lower is better. if it were hp/lbs, higher would be better.

[Anteraan]

I'm looking at both, leaning toward the CBR500R at this point, but I'll simply have to ride them both before I make a call. I didn't think the new-gen 250 to N300 would be that big of an upgrade, but it certainly appears to be so, based on everything I am reading. It (the 300) is also by far better looking than the CBR (imo), especially in white, and it's $1,200 less expensive than the CBR.

That said, the CBR looks pretty good in red (ABS also available in red, and only red), and the motor looks very, very promising. I haven't seen any dyno curves yet, but I find it hard to believe that the torque curve will be anything but broad and flat. And considering my 6'2", 200lb frame, the 500's engine changes the power to weight ratio in favor of the CBR (once I'm on it).

Bottom line: The dealership that sold me my new-gen 250 is a Honda-Kawasaki dealership, so when spring comes, I'm looking to schedule a back-to-back test ride of the 300 and 500. Then I'll decide.

[Gryphon12]

Originally Posted by davidji

You've got your units mixed-up. It's 7.4lb/hp. Lower is better. if it were hp/lbs, higher would be better.

Nice to know that somebody checks me on these things. I always worry about making mistakes. You are correct, my fingers were typing faster than my brain was thinking...again! Fixed!

[saltspray]

If the 54HP at the wheel is true..this means around 60-65 at the crank, coupled with EFI and Honda engineering...no brainer..I want the CB500F as my new commuter.

[mrbreeze]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Suzuki GW250 in this conversation yet...

[single]

Originally Posted by GotMojo?

How much more does that ZX6 cost compared to the Ninja 300? Isn't it more than double the price? These "junk" bikes that everybody complains about are not made for us here in the US who have been spoiled by high end expensive bikes.... they're made for the emerging markets who have lower expectations and want (or can only afford) less expensive bikes.

I think "junk" is going a little far but it's no secret these bikes use the lowest spec steel, clutch, brakes, pads, tires, and basically everything across the board. Everything on it works just fine, but there's no illusions about what you are riding when you get on these built to a price motorcycles.

That said a sub 600 motorcycle at the level of ZX6 components would probably cost maybe 100 dollars less then a brand new ZX6 anyway, so if you really wanted a slower motor in a ZX6 just buy a ZX6 and do a motor swap for the 300 engine.

[Grainbelt]

Originally Posted by mrbreeze

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Suzuki GW250 in this conversation yet...

400lb, 26hp bike for $4k... it is more in the Ninja 250 / CBR250R class.

[JerryH]

The Ninja EX500 was killed by the Ninja 650 and the ER-6N. I bought a leftover '09 Ninja 500 for $4500 OTD. It was a great bike, and I would highly recommend it to anyone. I had to sell mine because due to medical issues I could no longer ride a bike with low bars and rearset pegs. I put just over 5,000 miles on it in a year and a half. Again, it was not the bikes fault, it was well built. It is hard to find an EX500 owner that is not happy with their bike unless they want something more hardcore.

And while I consider the bike was well worth what I paid for it, it was not worth MSRP plus all the "powersports" dealer add ons. I liked it because it had carbs and no ABS. But, this bike was built in Japan, to the "old" Japanese quality standards. If Kawasaki does come out with a new cheaper Ninja 500, it will be built in China, and of far lower quality.

Look at the CBR250 compared to the decades old Rebel 250. My local Honda only dealer has new 2012 CBRs on sale for $3199, and 2012 Rebels on sale for $3699. Look at the difference in "technology", and tell me why the old tech Rebel costs $500 more. It's really simple. Quality. The CBR is made in China and is poor quality. The Rebel is still made in Japan, and is of traditional Japanese quality. Both given proper maintenance, the old carbureted, air cooled Rebel will probably last twice as many miles. There are still a lot of '85 Rebels still out there running strong. Where do you think all those CBRs will be in 30 years?


I don not put up with cheap quality from Japan anymore than anywhere else. As has been mentioned on many other forums, a Japanese brand name no longer means a Japanese product. My '09n Genuine Stella is pretty poor quality, especially the engine and electrical. But it is a 44 year old Vespa design made in India. And it was cheap and can be upgraded. Crappy bikes like the Royal Enfield and Ural are NOT cheap, and cannot be easily upgraded. Everybody knows that Chinese branded bikes are total junk. I was about to buy a SYM Wolf 150, a Taiwanese brand, but made in China. After giving it a thorough going over, I decided the quality was just not up to par, and parts were not available.

As for the Ninja 300 vs CBR 500, I wouldn't buy either. The quality is just not there. I would invest in an older used bike that was actually made in Japan before I would buy one of those.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, the quality of pretty much everything has been dropping lately, regardless of price or brand.

[eakins]

Originally Posted by mrbreeze

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Suzuki GW250 in this conversation yet...

could have been interesting, 250 twin, but wow that weight is crazy.
glad to see more parallel twins in the market place however.
wonder where else that motor will end up???

[ZZ-R Rider]

Originally Posted by JerryH

The CBR(250R) is made in China and is poor quality.

Not accurate ... the Honda CBR250R is assembled in Thailand (as is and has been for a number of years now, the Kawasaki EX250-H ZZ-R & the '08 & newer Ninja 250Rs) ... I've personally witnessed on many occassions over the past several months a new Honda CBR250 being well and truly ridden HARD to the point of abuse and this Bike has not missed a beat ... takes one hell of licking and keeps on ticking. The Japanese brand motorcycles currently being manufactured and/or assembled in Thailand are of very, very good quality. My, '07 ZZ-R250 has performed flawlessly in the 2 seasons I've been Riding her ...

BTW, new Triumph Bonnevilles are assembled in Bangkok too!

[Robert_C]

Originally Posted by ZZ-R Rider

Not accurate ... the Honda CBR250R is assembled in Thailand

I was thinking that too; but, I didn't want to jump on the point just in case I was wrong in my memory. There isn't a lot of, export oriented, manufacturing moving into China these days.

There are a lot of reasons; but, for a product like a car or a motorcycle, China just isn't a good choice. There are some products that China can do well, like consumer electronics. However, products that benefit from the Deming, and the continual improvement model are not a good fit.

Motor vehicles are made in China but that is because Chinas import taxes on motor vehicles, as on nearly all other imported goods, are very high. The tax on new imported vehicles can exceed 100%. This creates a powerful incentive to build factories within China. However, the quality of the output is nowhere near world class.

[Paebr332]

Originally Posted by JerryH

In case anyone hasn't noticed, the quality of pretty much everything has been dropping lately, regardless of price or brand.

This is laughably wrong.

[mrbreeze]

One of the things I like about the NC700X is that it is made in Japan. I don't have a problem with products from Thailand or Taiwan or Korea. I drive a Hyundai, and it has almost 160,000 mostly trouble free miles on it now.

But I don't want a car or bike made in China. My brother in law works in the automotive industry and spent several months over there getting a plant up to specs. He said they were having to scrap over half of the production because it didn't meet standards.