Buying an orphan bike

[Corkus]

Orphan bike: A bike that has been or is about to be discontinued, fall out of favor, and perhaps replaced by a bike that is nothing similar.

Current examples: VFR800, Ducati 848 Superbike, ST1300.

I'm interested in the ST1300 Honda. But I'm inclined to wait a year because it's orphan status makes me wonder if now is just about the worst time to buy one. New and used prices seem like overvalued stocks to me. It seems like a good time to sell an ST13, not buy one.

There are no 2013 ST models but there are new '10-'11-'12's for the stupid-high list price of $16,800. I think demand for that bike will weaken considerably with the weak economy, the weakening of heavy touring and possible release of the replacement model.

I'm reminded of how the VFR800 demand was strong and then dropped quite a bit with the VFR1200 release. The VFR800 is a prime example of orphan bike syndrome. I'd hate to be the last guy who bought one before 1200 came out.

A buddy of mine wants an 848 bad. That is an orphan in the making, the possible end to the famous 916 line. I imagine that line of bikes becoming history, wiped out by a baby Panagale. I simply would not buy an 848 for that reason or if I did it would be after the prices re-settle after the new model.

So, what about the timing of buying orphan bikes?

[Qaz]

Timing is everything! I bought a Yamaha Secca 750 in 1983 I think and the price dropped $1,000 the next year. That doesn't sound like much, but when the bike cost $3,000 in the first place, that is a blow!!

[Randy]

Wise thinking from a business perspective.

Then again...

Dying once can sometimes have a strong life altering effect...

Maybe, sometimes, if we can afford it, we should buy what we want and enjoy whatever it is that makes us happy today while we can. Tomorrow may never come.....

[mrbreeze]

I know where there is a new 2010 ST1300, price is under $12k - Honda of Cool Springs, Franklin, TN.

By the bike you want. If you are happy with it and keep it a long time, then it will be worth it.

[Jimmy the Heater]

I think I might question your idea of an orphan bike. I just can't see the ST1300 being one.

To me, orphan says only made 1 or 2 years, little to no sales, no parts commonality (this is where the ST does qualify) and no aftermarket.

True the ST doesn't share its engine with anything that I know of and the chassis is unique as far as I know too. But that bike has been out for several years, they have sold quite a few of them, and the aftermarket is full of accessories for them.

To me a true orphan is something like a Suzuki RE5 Rotary engine, very short production run, no one bought them, no aftermarket, hell even sparkplugs were specific to that bike.


I can't any problems owning an ST1300 at all, I say go for it

[DesmoDog]

Originally Posted by Corkus

A buddy of mine wants an 848 bad. That is an orphan in the making, the possible end to the famous 916 line.

The 916 line ended when the 999 came out... If he likes the 848 then he should buy one. So what if it's not current in one year? It'll be just as fast, handle just as well, and be just as good looking when the new model comes out. He won't be able to ride either of them to their potential anyway, so why does it matter?

Like the bike? Buy it and enjoy it. While you're waiting for the prices to be "right" the guys who already bought one will be out enjoying riding it.

I get that some people worry about spending too much. I'm not like that. If I like it, and it's worth it to me, that's all I need. If it goes on sale the next year so be it. Resale has never been a big concern of mine. Maybe someday I'll sell the 907 I bought new in 1991 and change my views... but I doubt it. and that 996 I bought in 2000? It's still faster than I am. Still looks great...

... and is still the worst streetbike I've ever owned. But no, it's not for sale.

[Randy]

Originally Posted by DesmoDog

The 916 line ended when the 999 came out... If he likes the 848 then he should buy one. So what if it's not current in one year? It'll be just as fast, handle just as well, and be just as good looking when the new model comes out. He won't be able to ride either of them to their potential anyway, so why does it matter?

Like the bike? Buy it and enjoy it. While you're waiting for the prices to be "right" the guys who already bought one will be out enjoying riding it.

I get that some people worry about spending too much. I'm not like that. If I like it, and it's worth it to me, that's all I need. If it goes on sale the next year so be it. Resale has never been a big concern of mine.

EXACTLY!!

Or, wait a year of two and maybe same some dosh. But, will the money you saved ever be able to buy back the time and enjoyment you lost and missed out on waiting to save it?

[Corkus]

Originally Posted by mrbreeze

I know where there is a new 2010 ST1300... under $12k... TN...

I expect to see lots of crazy discounts like that in the next year or two. Buying a new bike out of state in CA is inconvenient. I think 6,000 miles or so is required before out-of-state new bikes can be registered here, or something like that. But those discounts are coming to CA. That's kind of my point.

[Corkus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Heater

I think I might question your idea of an orphan bike. I just can't see the ST1300 being one.

To me, orphan says only made 1 or 2 years, little to no sales, no parts commonality (this is where the ST does qualify) and no aftermarket...

You win Heater! That orphan bike never had a family.

[Corkus]

Originally Posted by DesmoDog

...Like the bike? Buy it and enjoy it. While you're waiting for the prices to be "right" the guys who already bought one will be out enjoying riding it.

I get that some people worry about spending too much. I'm not like that. If I like it, and it's worth it to me, that's all I need. If it goes on sale the next year so be it. Resale has never been a big concern of mine...

That pretty much describes how I thought about bike transactions until I got my V-Strom. That bike is teaching me about value in my bike decisions.

My Wee handles well the way I have it modified but I don't like it much. It is convenient, rock solid reliable, versatile, economical but it is one of the very few bikes I've ever ridden that is hardly any fun to ride. But I've kept it twice as long as any other bike and I ride it 4+ days a week all year round. It's practically free to ride compared to other bikes.

I'm 54 and value is definitely part of the equation now. I've wasted significant money on much better bikes that were much worse decisions. That kinda sucks when the bike is gone. That is not good for my motorcycle mojo.

[Nevada]

They're all orphan bikes, or will be. The new CB500 will be an orphan bike some day. Except the Harley Davidson Sportster 883 and the Kawasaki KLR650. Six billion years from now, the cockroaches will still be building those two.

Yes, the MSRP for the ST1300 is higher than it should be. Yes, you can get a New Old Stock prior model year. The only difference between a 2009 and a 2012 is the VIN and color.

No, the prices of used ones aren't inflated. An ST1300 with topcase has more cargo volume than a Goldwing while still having removeable bags, it gets better mileage than a 'Wing, it has a 'lectric windscreen, it's more comfortable than a Concours 14, has better range than a FJR, and is smoother than an RT1200. The only sport touring bikes that are as well balanced are the new Triumph Trophy (which costs as much, and hasn't been in production for 10 years), and the BMW K1600, which costs 1/2 again as much, and is basically just more bike while still being well balanced. IF you want an ST1300, get one, there is a strong community around them, they are built to last, and last, and last. Honda thinks as highly of their build quality as they do of the Goldwing, i.e. 3 year unlimited mileage warranty.

Buying a potential (or actual) orphan bike is a tricky thing. Why is it going to be an orphan? Is the company going/going/gone? (Buell comes to mind...) Is it a bike that's just being dropped from your market, but is still being sold elsewhere? How long has it been in production? A bike in production for only a year or two is a different kettle of fish from one that's been built for a decade (or two).

Methinks that in a lot of minds, the "orphan bike" thing gets overblown though. For all practical purposes, the supersport and literbikes were being orphaned every 4-5 years for the last 15 years. Nobody batted an eye.

Of course, if you can use the "orphan" to your advantage when dealing for the bike, go for it. Me, I wouldn't let it bother me. (note: passing on an orphan is different than holding out for the 'new and improved" edition.)

[Corkus]

Originally Posted by Nevada

They're all orphan bikes, or will be. The new CB500 will be an orphan bike some day. Except the Harley Davidson Sportster 883 and the Kawasaki KLR650. Six billion years from now, the cockroaches will still be building those two.

Yes, the MSRP for the ST1300 is higher than it should be. Yes, you can get a New Old Stock prior model year. The only difference between a 2009 and a 2012 is the VIN and color.

No, the prices of used ones aren't inflated. An ST1300 with topcase has more cargo volume than a Goldwing while still having removeable bags, it gets better mileage than a 'Wing, it has a 'lectric windscreen, it's more comfortable than a Concours 14, has better range than a FJR, and is smoother than an RT1200. The only sport touring bikes that are as well balanced are the new Triumph Trophy (which costs as much, and hasn't been in production for 10 years), and the BMW K1600, which costs 1/2 again as much, and is basically just more bike while still being well balanced. IF you want an ST1300, get one, there is a strong community around them, they are built to last, and last, and last. Honda thinks as highly of their build quality as they do of the Goldwing, i.e. 3 year unlimited mileage warranty.

Buying a potential (or actual) orphan bike is a tricky thing. Why is it going to be an orphan? Is the company going/going/gone? (Buell comes to mind...) Is it a bike that's just being dropped from your market, but is still being sold elsewhere? How long has it been in production? A bike in production for only a year or two is a different kettle of fish from one that's been built for a decade (or two).

Methinks that in a lot of minds, the "orphan bike" thing gets overblown though. For all practical purposes, the supersport and literbikes were being orphaned every 4-5 years for the last 15 years. Nobody batted an eye.

Of course, if you can use the "orphan" to your advantage when dealing for the bike, go for it. Me, I wouldn't let it bother me. (note: passing on an orphan is different than holding out for the 'new and improved" edition.)

Thank you for your reply. This is the thought provoking, balanced, clear minded reply I was hoping for. I appreciate your thoughts.

[Maggot12]

I have a Honda CBF1000, while not orphan, it's not real popular and not sold in the US. When researching to consider buying it I couldn't find much on it, and there's only one forum that I found, and it's not very busy.

But it provides me with all I want in a motorcycle right now. It's like a slimmer ST1300, but takes regular gas. Has good range, good smooth power and good on gas, great 2up, quick detachable 3 piece luggage, adjustable windshield and ABS.

I'll sell it in a few yr and get something else. While I wouldn't buy a one off motorcycle, I also don't see Honda going away any time soon. If you can afford it, don't dwell on the bikes possible life span... just ride the frigging thing.

[Scott of the Sahara]

A motorcycle is not an investment. It is a vehicle. Vehicles almost always loose value. There are very few that go up in value, but the rest do not. Picking a vehicle on the basis of value will make you miss all of the good reasons to buy one. The best deal is finding what you like for a reasonable price. Finding what you hate for a killer steal price will not get you far.
Buy the motorcycle that you like.
Does it fit you?
Does it do what you need it to do?
Is it a fair value?
Can you afford it?
Do people on the internet like / hate it?
I like the ST1300 but it is too tall for me. If I can't touch the ground when I am at a stop, then the bike does not do what I need it to do.

[High Hope]

Originally Posted by Jimmy the Heater

I think I might question your idea of an orphan bike. I just can't see the ST1300 being one.

To me, orphan says only made 1 or 2 years, little to no sales, no parts commonality (this is where the ST does qualify) and no aftermarket.

True the ST doesn't share its engine with anything that I know of and the chassis is unique as far as I know too. But that bike has been out for several years, they have sold quite a few of them, and the aftermarket is full of accessories for them.

To me a true orphan is something like a Suzuki RE5 Rotary engine, very short production run, no one bought them, no aftermarket, hell even sparkplugs were specific to that bike.


I can't any problems owning an ST1300 at all, I say go for it

I think that bike is kind of cool, hunkered down and horizontal looking. If you ditched the toilet-paper roll rear light and the paper-towel roll instrument binnacle it would be even better. I wonder what it was like to ride?