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Old 12-03-2012, 11:39 PM   #121
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unleaded View Post
Says UK MSRP is 15770...over $25k if you just used today's conversion.

Still beautiful, but I'm out.
Yet, the Stelvio NTX in the UK is 11,849 GBP. In the USA, the NTX is 15,990 USD, and in Italy, it's 14,350 EURO.

Straight conversions don't work between markets...
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:10 AM   #122
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Yes. I think most realize that.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:13 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Unleaded View Post
Yes. I think most realize that.
Then why your previous post? It didn't make sense.

PGA will price the Cal 14 where they want too, regardless of pricing in other countries.

Also, the USA doesn't have VAT, which is almost univerally included in UK/Euro pricing.

How can you be out over price, if you don't yet know the price?

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:26 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Then why your previous post? It didn't make sense.

PGA will price the Cal 14 where they want too, regardless of pricing in other countries.

Also, the USA doesn't have VAT, which is almost univerally included in UK/Euro pricing.

How can you be out over price, if you don't yet know the price?

Doesn't make sense? Which part? I said "if you just used today's conversion", not "it will cost over $25k in the US". It was a speculative point of reference. Which is all we have right now.

Just guessing it won't be $15K US. I'm out over price if it is. Or in MG terms, I'm out if it isn't 10K to 12K at yearend leftover or barely used prices. Not a moral judgement against Moto Guzzi, so you can relax. No, you can't see my financials. Trust me, I can't afford it if it's in the 20 grand US range.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:07 AM   #125
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Straight currency conversion is common mistake people make.

1st thing you have to do is remove the UK 17% VAT. Then you have to allow for some Kentucky Windage that PGA will use to price the bike in the USA market. Every market is different.

There is no worldwide set price of vehicles, so a straight currency conversion is pointless.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:19 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Straight currency conversion is common mistake people make.

1st thing you have to do is remove the UK 17% VAT. Then you have to allow for some Kentucky Windage that PGA will use to price the bike in the USA market. Every market is different.

There is no worldwide set price of vehicles, so a straight currency conversion is pointless.

No more pointless than showing the current Stelvio price differences among countries (which puts the 14 at over $21K at the same 1.35/1 ratio used in your example), and then following that up by saying Guzzi can price it wherever they like. That's obvious and says nothing. It isn't a "mistake" to show a price example based on a true currency conversion. It is simply showing the price of the bike in the UK, and then putting that in US terms. I never said what the price will be in the US. You're reading that into my reply. Simple currency conversions are done in bike magazines all the time. Accurate predictors of price? Of course not. But I find the comparison interesting, while you obviously do not.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #127
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You're not taking the VAT out of the equation.

You're not taking into account that the magazines are ALWAYS wrong when they make straight currency conversions.

You're not taking into account the ability and willingness of an OEM and of an importer to price a vehicle at different levels of profit in different markets.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:49 AM   #128
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Guzzi parts

For stock Guzzi parts Joe Eish at Eish Enterprises in Salineville, Ohio is the BEST and CHEAPEST. He's been around for years.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:02 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by oldhippie1 View Post
For stock Guzzi parts Joe Eish at Eish Enterprises in Salineville, Ohio is the BEST and CHEAPEST. He's been around for years.
He's also not an authorized Guzzi dealer, and will probably not be of any help for a new bike like the California 1400.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:09 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
You're not taking the VAT out of the equation.

You're not taking into account that the magazines are ALWAYS wrong when they make straight currency conversions.

You're not taking into account the ability and willingness of an OEM and of an importer to price a vehicle at different levels of profit in different markets.
Now you've completely lost me. I simply stated the UK price in terms of dollars. Didn't say that was the US price, since Guzzi has clearly stated the US price is to be determined. I didn't say magazines are correct predictors of bike prices, nor did I say I read their direct-conversions of prices as such. They are just interesting. In dollars, the MSRP in the UK is over 25 grand. That's just a fact. There's nothing I'm not taking into account. I didn't make a price prediction for the bike in the US market. I said I was out based on the information supplied so far. 25 grand may be too high. 15 grand is almost certainly too low. And unless the bike is well under 20 grand US....I am not a buyer. I'll leave it at that, and apologize to the other thread participants for a pointless hijack.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #131
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Guzzi 1400

After owning 14 Guzzi's over the last 34 years I see it this way. The dealer network is terrible. Most of the old good dealers have given up on Guzzi. The club is not what it used to be. The bikes are heavy and way too expensive. Its a beautiful bike but I want a good dealer network. They won't even post a release date. Piaggio is nothing like dealing with the old importers Emily and Eric at Moto America in Lillington, N.C. To me the good days of Guzzi in the USA are gone forever.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:03 AM   #132
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And on the other side of the coin, I'm thinking Guzzi's best days in the U.S. may be yet to come.

Their latest bikes, the Stelvio NTX, Griso SE, the new Norge, the new V7, and now the Cali 1400 all appear to be excellent bikes and have been received well. They're also competitively priced. If you read the Kevin Ash article that was referenced a few posts back, it mentioned that Guzzi has grown 50% in the past two years. Another indicator that their new lineup is popular.

Yes, I agree that the dealer network is poor. But, with a top shelf and competetively priced lineup now available, it's possible that more people will show an interest in carrying this brand. I haven't owned 14 Guzzis, but I have owned three. I'm lucky in that I have a good dealer within 20 miles. I've also never needed one while on the road (knocks wood).

I think Guzzi's future is brighter now than it has been in many years. And don't hold your breath waiting for those year end or 2-3 year old discounted leftovers anymore.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:31 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by OldRoadToad View Post
If you are worried about Guzzi dealers become "Ride More(on)" shoppes, worry not. So long as they make a quality product at reasonable and competitive prices, Guzzi can continue to improve its share of the market here in America.

It's kinda like Victory. If you sell ten bikes one year and fifteen the next, you simply announce a fifty percent increase in overall sales. Not the actual number of bikes sold, just the percentage of increase. San Diego had Sonny Angel's shop for many, many years. People liked Sonny and a few even bought bikes from him. His brother was my insurance agent for years until he retired. People our age want that again but to make it happen customer support in the form of actual sales and after sales, service work is required. There is GP Motorcycles here in San Diego and they sell Guzzi, Aprilia, Ducati, MV, KTM and Husqvarna. A family owned and operated shop. Great people. Great bikes.

Piaggio is huge and Guzzi is small part of that company. Depending upon the parent company's plans, Guzzi's importance may increase or not. I doubt it will shrink.

Italians are just as proud as Americans and the history of Guzzi is too great to toss aside. It is not too big nor too small to fail. It just needs to survive, grow and stabilize its share. Like any small marque, you have to want to take a chance on owner ship. In other words, you have to want to own the bike. For more than a year or two or three. Guzzis are like Harleys. Classic and modern at the same time. They lack the cachet of the American brand but like HD what they have in history and style is all their own.

It is up to prospective buyers whether or not they wish to really own a bike and in doing so, have it own a part of them.

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Old 12-04-2012, 02:56 PM   #134
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...you have to want to take a chance on ownership. In other words, you have to want to own the bike. For more than a year or two or three.

The Toad
Exactly.

Owning any of the small Italian brands takes a level of commitment not unlike owning a vintage machine.

Guzzi will never be Honda or Harley. There will never be a Guzzi dealer on every street corner. Guzzi will always require more than the average level of owner involvement.

Piaggio is pouring cubic dollars into the brand, as can be seen from the effort with the Cal 14. Sure some of the old line dealers are gone. They got old and retired, mostly. Guzzi does have an established network of good dealers, though. It just means that it may be 100 miles or 300 miles to see that dealer. In my mind, that journey is worth it for a good dealer. I don't care to even cross the street for a bad one...
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:15 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by oldhippie1 View Post
After owning 14 Guzzi's over the last 34 years I see it this way:

1)The dealer network is terrible. Most of the old good dealers have given up on Guzzi.

2) The club is not what it used to be.

3) The bikes are heavy and way too expensive. Its a beautiful bike but

4) I want a good dealer network.

5) They won't even post a release date.

6) Piaggio is nothing like dealing with the old importers Emily and Eric at Moto America in Lillington, N.C.

7) To me the good days of Guzzi in the USA are gone forever.
With all due respect:

1) Moto Guzzi has never had a very extensive network in the USA. Saying "most of the good dealers have given up" is simply not true. Feel free to name some, and thier reasons for quitting the brand, if you want to back up your argument.

2) "The Club", MGNOC, Moto Guzzi National Owners Club isn't a "club". It's a company owned by one man that is designed to pay him a salary. There are no elected officers and "the club" contributes nothing to local events. I'm sure, being in Kansas, you're a devoted follower of Frank, but MGNOC is nothing more than a retirement paycheck for one man. Sorry, that's the bottom line.

3) Moto Guzzi has motorcycles beginning at 400 lbs. There some that weigh about 500 lbs. The Californias are the heavyweights of the Guzzi world. Always have been.

4) Define "good dealer network" for a company that produces less than 10,000 units for worldwide consumption, and imports less than 1,000 of those into The USA...

5) California 1400 release has been set at 2nd Quarter of 2013 for The USA.

6) How much do you have to deal with Piaggio Group Americas?

7) The old days are gone, yes. Things are different now, yes. Frankly, I'm glad that De Tomaso and SEIMM aren't around right now to run the poor company into the ground again. I was not happy with the Piaggio buyout initially, since what they were really after was to take over Aprilia and eliminate scooter competition. However, someone, somewhere at Piaggio has decided to sink millions and millions of Euros into the brand and the factory at Mandelo. They have demonstrated over the past few years that they intend to develop the Guzzi brand, and I believe they will continue to do so...
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