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Old 09-28-2014, 08:40 PM   #1
Grozny OP
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Buying a lemon title 2014 RT?

Curious what other people think. Is it worth buying or steer clear? The bike has the touring, dynamic, and technology packages. It also has the color matching top case with brake light. The dealer said the bike qualifies for the free NAV too. Bike has right at 2,000 miles on it. To me not only is it a used bike, since the title list the previous owner. It is also clearly printed on the title -manufacture buy back. The bike was bought back under the lemon law due to the time out of service for the rear shock. I know it would probably kill resale value, so what's a good price to pay considering the above circumstances? NADA low retail is $14,720 and average is $19,730, but that is also for a clean title bike. Or avoid the hassle and just buy a new one?
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:44 PM   #2
JimVonBaden
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Considering it is basically a new bike with no real issues, except a stupid title, I would buy it if I could get $2000 or more off retail. If resale is a concern because you turn over bikes, pay the premium for a new one.
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Old Yesterday, 03:17 AM   #3
gtbensley
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Only buy it if you don't intend to sell it soon. Resale will be hurt with the title....if you do buy it, can you show it was bought back for that specific reason of the shock?
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Old Yesterday, 03:32 AM   #4
JohninVT
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Lemon laws vary from state to state. One issue does not usually qualify for it to be incurred. Typically, it takes as many as three unrelated problems for the Lemon Law to be used.

A BMW with every electronic package that's been bought back because of the Lemon Law would be an extremely risky proposition for anyone who doesn't sell BMW maintenance DVD's.
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Old Yesterday, 04:44 AM   #5
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninVT View Post
Lemon laws vary from state to state. One issue does not usually qualify for it to be incurred. Typically, it takes as many as three unrelated problems for the Lemon Law to be used.

A BMW with every electronic package that's been bought back because of the Lemon Law would be an extremely risky proposition for anyone who doesn't sell BMW maintenance DVD's.
WTF does that have to do with anything, or are you just tossing out insults?

The bike had a bad shock, that was replaced with a new one. That it was made a lemon title, if that even exists, does not mean the bike is a risky buy, except if the buyer doesn't intend to keep it long and is worried about resale. I said this in my first post, but feel free to ignore that part in favor of throwing out insults!
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Old Yesterday, 04:59 AM   #6
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If the bike has the top case with brakelight I think it will also have the electric locks and alarm, likely the shift assist also. So a loaded bike from the factory and the topcase has also been painted. That would have a "sticker" price of over 24K MSRP. But, it is USED and it sounds like it will have a branded title. The "branded" title may not be as bad as a salvage title but I don't think you could trade or sell the bike without disclosing it. It WILL have a major impact on a buyers decision to purchase and what they will pay.

I would in NO way be afraid of buying that bike. My new 14 is no different, it had to have the same shock work done to it before delivery. There are apparently several buy backs on the market, and if you bought one of those in a state without motorcycle lemon laws ( like California and Florida for example ) there would be no stigma with the title. Otherwise I wouldn't consider one for more than $5000 below market price for a used one without a branded title. Remember, there has already been a $2500 discount applied by BMW and from what I hear they are subsidizing the sale of these buy backs to the dealers as well.

Your dealer may give you a NAV system with the bike, but BMW will NOT give it as part of the sales program. It clearly states on their website that buybacks do NOT qualify for this program.
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Old Yesterday, 05:04 AM   #7
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In some states when a vehicle is branded a lemon the manufacturer cancels the warranty. I'd suggest you find out whether or not everything is intact. Personally I wouldn't even consider it if the warranty is canceled. As for price, any title branding has an adverse effect on resale, even if the vehicle is perfect. In the motorcycle biz a branded title bike was typically worth 50 - 60 percent of a comparable clean title bike, assuming similar condition, options, and mileage.

Personally - even with warranty - I wouldn't pay more than 60 percent of a clean title bike, and no dealer is going to let one of those go that cheap. They are looking for folks willing to pay slightly less than retail. It may be a great bike but when you go to sell it you are going to get kicked in the slats.
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Old Yesterday, 06:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninVT View Post
A BMW with every electronic package that's been bought back because of the Lemon Law would be an extremely risky proposition for anyone who doesn't sell BMW maintenance DVD's.


The above in my estimation is a true enough statement. Not an insult.
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Old Yesterday, 08:01 AM   #9
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninVT View Post
Lemon laws vary from state to state. One issue does not usually qualify for it to be incurred. Typically, it takes as many as three unrelated problems for the Lemon Law to be used.

A BMW with every electronic package that's been bought back because of the Lemon Law would be an extremely risky proposition for anyone who doesn't sell BMW maintenance DVD's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaput13 View Post
The above in my estimation is a true enough statement. Not an insult.
Why is it true and not an insult? My making DVDs has nothing to do with my opinion on this. The only reason to bring it up is to say my opinion is not accurate because I make maintenance DVDs (which do not cover the shock, or anything related to the circumstances in this case). So please, explain the relevance!
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Old Yesterday, 08:25 AM   #10
Grozny OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realshelby View Post
If the bike has the top case with brakelight I think it will also have the electric locks and alarm, likely the shift assist also. So a loaded bike from the factory and the topcase has also been painted. That would have a "sticker" price of over 24K MSRP. But, it is USED and it sounds like it will have a branded title. The "branded" title may not be as bad as a salvage title but I don't think you could trade or sell the bike without disclosing it. It WILL have a major impact on a buyers decision to purchase and what they will pay.

I would in NO way be afraid of buying that bike. My new 14 is no different, it had to have the same shock work done to it before delivery. There are apparently several buy backs on the market, and if you bought one of those in a state without motorcycle lemon laws ( like California and Florida for example ) there would be no stigma with the title. Otherwise I wouldn't consider one for more than $5000 below market price for a used one without a branded title. Remember, there has already been a $2500 discount applied by BMW and from what I hear they are subsidizing the sale of these buy backs to the dealers as well.

Your dealer may give you a NAV system with the bike, but BMW will NOT give it as part of the sales program. It clearly states on their website that buybacks do NOT qualify for this program.
Nice to know about the navigation. They are claiming it still qualifies, and would be considered a "new" bike sale to BMW. Yet, when I asked if it would carry the three year warranty they were not sure, but said that their dealership would personally pick up anything BMW wouldn't, to give me the three years. Also, the bike does have the alarm, locking cases, and shift assist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
In some states when a vehicle is branded a lemon the manufacturer cancels the warranty. I'd suggest you find out whether or not everything is intact. Personally I wouldn't even consider it if the warranty is canceled. As for price, any title branding has an adverse effect on resale, even if the vehicle is perfect. In the motorcycle biz a branded title bike was typically worth 50 - 60 percent of a comparable clean title bike, assuming similar condition, options, and mileage.

Personally - even with warranty - I wouldn't pay more than 60 percent of a clean title bike, and no dealer is going to let one of those go that cheap. They are looking for folks willing to pay slightly less than retail. It may be a great bike but when you go to sell it you are going to get kicked in the slats.
Price is $21,000 otd, which doesn't seem to be a great deal when you factor in the title along with the unknowns (warranty, nav, future resale value, etc). Also, I don't have the best track record keeping bikes for long periods of time. I've had my Street Triple R for 2 years, and that's pretty good for me. If the price was right though, I wouldn't mind picking this up. As mentioned above, the dealership probably bought this bike back at a fairly large discount. If the bike had a clear title, $21,000 would be more than fair. Too bad that isn't the case.
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Old Yesterday, 08:39 AM   #11
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Who says the rear shock was the reason for the buy back? Dealer or original owner? It's a convenient and plausible story but may not be the only or real reason.
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Old Yesterday, 08:46 AM   #12
hyena
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Just my opinion. $21K out the door for a used bike with a "tainted" title - not a good deal. It's not the bike - all they did was replace a rear shock - we just don't know at this point how much that title will affect value a year or two from now.
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Old Yesterday, 08:48 AM   #13
Grozny OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
Who says the rear shock was the reason for the buy back? Dealer or original owner? It's a convenient and plausible story but may not be the only or real reason.
The dealer let me see the title along with the lemon paperwork, which only listed the rear shock for being the cause. The only reason the bike fell within the realm of the lemon law, is the length of time it was out of service. I wouldn't think they would be able to not disclose the real reason(s) on the state paperwork, but I could be wrong. In my mind, the real issue is what's a realistic price for the bike considering the circumstance.
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Old Yesterday, 09:30 AM   #14
kaput13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Why is it true and not an insult? My making DVDs has nothing to do with my opinion on this. The only reason to bring it up is to say my opinion is not accurate because I make maintenance DVDs (which do not cover the shock, or anything related to the circumstances in this case). So please, explain the relevance!

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Old Yesterday, 10:07 AM   #15
kaput13
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OK but enough about me.

If I were spending that kind of bread I'd go new. Too many re-sale issues otherwise.

Throwing out a bone. The 2 grand figure mentioned in the initial VonBaden post strikes me as about right.
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