ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-21-2012, 11:48 AM   #46
norcal1
Cameron Park, CA.
 
norcal1's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Oddometer: 216
I agree with the dealer could care less about the cash deal. My last bike I told the dealer what I would be willing to pay out the door and I have cash. He said only way he could give it to me at that price is if I financed it. So I did and paid it off in less than 30 days. I paid 54.00 in intrest but saved over 700.00.
norcal1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #47
cliffy109
Beastly Adventurer
 
cliffy109's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Oddometer: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMoore View Post
Another factor for me is the value of my time. Yes, do your research and yes negotiate the best possible deal that you can. But for me a big factor was getting the deal done in a reasonable amount of time, and with a dealer that was convenient for service after the sale. Yeah, I might have been able to get the bike for $300 less if I had spent 2 weeks visiting every dealership in a 100 mile radius, but I have better ways to spend my time...
Absolutely! Another factor for me would be how much enjoyment is there in the purchase. This isn't a car for goodness sake. It should be fun. You should be relaxed and the dealer should make you feel welcome. Finally, the dealer should be one that you can use for service if you need it later and I promise you that if you buy from the same dealer where you service it, you will gain some benefit.

Essentially, if you like the bike, the dealer and the salesman, buy it as long as the price isn't totally crazy.
cliffy109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 12:07 PM   #48
cliffy109
Beastly Adventurer
 
cliffy109's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Oddometer: 1,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcal1 View Post
I agree with the dealer could care less about the cash deal. My last bike I told the dealer what I would be willing to pay out the door and I have cash. He said only way he could give it to me at that price is if I financed it. So I did and paid it off in less than 30 days. I paid 54.00 in intrest but saved over 700.00.
Walking in to a car or bike dealership and announcing that you deserve a bigger discount because you are paying cash is exactly like saying, "I expect you to give me a big discount because you will have no chance to sell me any accessories, warranty or insurance plans." It makes no sense what so ever. I work in the car business and cash customers rarely buy anything other than the vehicle so we know our only opportunity to make any money is on the sale price. We can't make up for a short deal by making a few bucks on a warranty or anything else.
cliffy109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 12:22 PM   #49
RxZ
Legal Drug Dealer
 
RxZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Tyler, TX
Oddometer: 1,797
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109 View Post
Walking in to a car or bike dealership and announcing that you deserve a bigger discount because you are paying cash is exactly like saying, "I expect you to give me a big discount because you will have no chance to sell me any accessories, warranty or insurance plans." It makes no sense what so ever. I work in the car business and cash customers rarely buy anything other than the vehicle so we know our only opportunity to make any money is on the sale price. We can't make up for a short deal by making a few bucks on a warranty or anything else.
This brings up another point. Everything you are buying is its own purchase, even though you are only writing one check. Obviously, don't be so tight with your money that no one wants to deal with you, but treat everything as its own transaction. Trading something in? Negotiate that price. Buying a new bike? Negotiate that. Want some accessories? Negotiate those as well. Again, be fair, but you do not have to pay full MSRP either.
RxZ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #50
concours
WFO for 41 years
 
concours's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Kensington, NH USA
Oddometer: 5,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffy109 View Post
Walking in to a car or bike dealership and announcing that you deserve a bigger discount because you are paying cash is exactly like saying, "I expect you to give me a big discount because you will have no chance to sell me any accessories, warranty or insurance plans." It makes no sense what so ever. I work in the car business and cash customers rarely buy anything other than the vehicle so we know our only opportunity to make any money is on the sale price. We can't make up for a short deal by making a few bucks on a warranty or anything else.
Selling extended waranties, upholstery protectant, etc. is the stuff you make money on. Sorry your pay structure is linked to pimping that rubbish, but you chose the vocation. Don't for a minute think it's fair exchange, it's not. It's the brainwashing that's served up at dealers. The danger always is, the salesman begins to believe his own line of shit.
That being said, I agree that the cash buyer is at a disadvantage, the salesman and dealer all stand to make more money selling to the person who finances everything. Including the upside down note on his current beater, leftover form the last fleecing.
__________________
Too much is just barely enough.....
concours is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 05:13 AM   #51
Barry
Just Beastly
 
Barry's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Oddometer: 7,050
Relative to the purchase, buyers need only concern themselves with one number. What does the item cost me OUT THE DOOR. Everything else is noise.

NEVER discuss trades and purchases together. Sales pukes will try to merge the two, and one has nothing to do with the other. Never has, never will.

Carry on...

Barry
__________________
Tail of the Dragon at Deal's Gap... Avoid it now, do a trackday.

Do not do business with Myrtle West Cycle... Not a reputable vendor by a long shot.
Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 09:52 AM   #52
trc.rhubarb
Beastly Adventurer
 
trc.rhubarb's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Concord, CA
Oddometer: 1,852
Regarding trades... at least in CA, the value of the trade does not offset the value of the vehicle being purchased when it comes to the taxman. I'll gladly take a big loss on the trade in return for the dealer taking a loss on the new bike... package deal and all. In this case, discussing both at once saves a boatload out the door.
__________________
2007 BMW GS Adventure
2000 Ducati 900ss
2010 Harley Ultra Limited
1975 R90/6
Follow me here
trc.rhubarb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 11:07 AM   #53
TrashCan
Scary Jerry
 
TrashCan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Louisville, Tn
Oddometer: 3,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry View Post
Relative to the purchase, buyers need only concern themselves with one number. What does the item cost me OUT THE DOOR. Everything else is noise.

NEVER discuss trades and purchases together. Sales pukes will try to merge the two, and one has nothing to do with the other. Never has, never will.

Carry on...

Barry
Taxes are only paid on the trade difference in Tn.
This completely changes the out the door price, but you knew that.


STATE IS THE TRADE-IN EXEMPT FROM SALES TAX?
Alabama YES
Alaska N/A
Arizona YES
Arkansas NO
California NO
Colorado YES
Connecticut YES
Delaware YES
District of Columbia NO
Florida YES
Georgia YES
Hawaii YES
Idaho YES
Illinois YES
Indiana YES
Iowa YES
Kansas YES
Kentucky YES
Louisiana YES
Maine YES
Maryland NO
Massachusetts NO
Michigan NO
Minnesota YES
Mississippi YES
Missouri YES
Montana NO
Nebraska YES
Nevada YES
New Hampshire N/A
New Jersey NO
New Mexico YES
New York YES
North Carolina YES
North Dakota YES
Ohio YES
Oklahoma NO
Oregon N/A
Pennsylvania YES
Rhode Island YES
South Carolina YES
South Dakota NO
Tennessee YES
Texas YES
Utah YES
Vermont YES
Virginia NO
Washington NO
West Virginia YES
Wisconsin YES
Wyoming YES
__________________
X the DY.


TrashCan screwed with this post 11-22-2012 at 11:18 AM
TrashCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 01:37 PM   #54
Martad00
Adventurer
 
Martad00's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: Richmond, VA
Oddometer: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMoore View Post
Another factor for me is the value of my time. Yes, do your research and yes negotiate the best possible deal that you can. But for me a big factor was getting the deal done in a reasonable amount of time, and with a dealer that was convenient for service after the sale. Yeah, I might have been able to get the bike for $300 less if I had spent 2 weeks visiting every dealership in a 100 mile radius, but I have better ways to spend my time...
Could not agree more. I always try to get a FAIR price, not necessarily the absolute best price. If a dealer is fair with me early in the process, I am appreciative of their negotiating style and am happy to close the deal quickly.

When it comes to dealer fees and costs, I don't care about that stuff at all. Just the out the door final price.
Martad00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 03:22 PM   #55
TrashCan
Scary Jerry
 
TrashCan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Louisville, Tn
Oddometer: 3,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martad00 View Post
Could not agree more. I always try to get a FAIR price, not necessarily the absolute best price. If a dealer is fair with me early in the process, I am appreciative of their negotiating style and am happy to close the deal quickly.

When it comes to dealer fees and costs, I don't care about that stuff at all. Just the out the door final price.


Out of the last 4 offers I have made, I bought or traded 3 bikes.
The one deal, we couldn't get together on price, but we are still friends.

I make all my offers OTD.

It is really very easy to be a happy buyer.
__________________
X the DY.

TrashCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 05:23 PM   #56
Barry
Just Beastly
 
Barry's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Oddometer: 7,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
Taxes are only paid on the trade difference in Tn.
This completely changes the out the door price, but you knew that.


STATE IS THE TRADE-IN EXEMPT FROM SALES TAX?
Alabama YES
Alaska N/A
Arizona YES
Arkansas NO
California NO
Colorado YES
Connecticut YES
Delaware YES
District of Columbia NO
Florida YES
Georgia YES
Hawaii YES
Idaho YES
Illinois YES
Indiana YES
Iowa YES
Kansas YES
Kentucky YES
Louisiana YES
Maine YES
Maryland NO
Massachusetts NO
Michigan NO
Minnesota YES
Mississippi YES
Missouri YES
Montana NO
Nebraska YES
Nevada YES
New Hampshire N/A
New Jersey NO
New Mexico YES
New York YES
North Carolina YES
North Dakota YES
Ohio YES
Oklahoma NO
Oregon N/A
Pennsylvania YES
Rhode Island YES
South Carolina YES
South Dakota NO
Tennessee YES
Texas YES
Utah YES
Vermont YES
Virginia NO
Washington NO
West Virginia YES
Wisconsin YES
Wyoming YES
I understand your point... My point, which I probably didn't make is you should not discuss the purchase price of the bike you want and your trade in as if one affects the other. The value of all vehicles is what it is.

An example is if you say "how much is the blue chevy"? And the sales guys says, "that depends, you trading something in on it'? That's bullshit. One does NOT affect the other. And the OTD price is still THE figure the buyer needs to know. Example, if I want to spend $5599 on a KTM 525... I need not concern myself with fees, taxes, prep, etc. If the bike is $2 and there is $5597 in bullshit dealer fees, my OTD price has been met. That is my point. OTD is the only figure that matters for the sale, the trade, if you get a price you like, if you don't, don't trade the vehicle. But the trade does NOT affect the value of the vehicle being purchased.

Now don't get me started on people that walk into a dealer and say I have $530 I can spend per month on a car". That
is insanity.

Barry
__________________
Tail of the Dragon at Deal's Gap... Avoid it now, do a trackday.

Do not do business with Myrtle West Cycle... Not a reputable vendor by a long shot.
Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 06:00 PM   #57
TrashCan
Scary Jerry
 
TrashCan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Louisville, Tn
Oddometer: 3,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry View Post
I understand your point... My point, which I probably didn't make is you should not discuss the purchase price of the bike you want and your trade in as if . The value of all vehicles is what it is.

An example is if you say "how much is the blue chevy"? And the sales guys says, "that depends, you trading something in on it'? That's bullshit. One does NOT affect the other. And the OTD price is still THE figure the buyer needs to know. Example, if I want to spend $5599 on a KTM 525... I need not concern myself with fees, taxes, prep, etc. If the bike is $2 and there is $5597 in bullshit dealer fees, my OTD price has been met. That is my point. OTD is the only figure that matters for the sale, the trade, if you get a price you like, if you don't, don't trade the vehicle. But the trade does NOT affect the value of the vehicle being purchased.


Now don't get me started on people that walk into a dealer and say I have $530 I can spend per month on a car". That
is insanity.

Barry


We are on the same page. OTD is all that matters.
How you get there is the difference in the deal and the attitude that each person brings to the deal.
You are just trying to take dealing too personal.
It is only money and product.
You don't have to buy and they don't have to sell to you.
__________________
X the DY.


TrashCan screwed with this post 11-22-2012 at 06:05 PM
TrashCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 06:12 PM   #58
Barry
Just Beastly
 
Barry's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Oddometer: 7,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
We are on the same page. OTD is all that matters.
How you get there is the difference in the deal and the attitude that each person brings to the deal.
You are just trying to take dealing too personal.
It is only money and product.
You don't have to buy and they don't have to sell to you.
Not sure what I said that implies I take buying and selling personally. I take spending my money seriously. I am not emotionally invested in the process. I buy, or not, if it makes sense and meets my criteria for doing so or not doing so.

I do take immature, idiotic sales tactics for what they are.

Barry
__________________
Tail of the Dragon at Deal's Gap... Avoid it now, do a trackday.

Do not do business with Myrtle West Cycle... Not a reputable vendor by a long shot.
Barry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 06:42 PM   #59
Mk5mike
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Mk5mike's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 271
Well here in central California how can I find or get them to drop the the set up and fright charges. Otd here means MSRP+set up+ freight+ sales tax+doc fee. I was looking at a crf250l and my hook up price was 5200$OTD said he took of the freight charge so non hook up fee would be 5500$. So paying 1000$ over MSRP seam on to you guys? Another dealer in Oregon. Is not charging any set up or fright and no sales tax in Oregon and has a husky tr650 terra for MSRP+ doc fees. Travel cost and sales tax I am not worried about on that deal it just sucks I have to wait tell next I go north to go home to Washington.
Mk5mike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 06:56 PM   #60
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: U-gene, OR.
Oddometer: 19,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry View Post
An example is if you say "how much is the blue chevy"? And the sales guys says, "that depends, you trading something in on it'? That's bullshit. One does NOT affect the other. ...But the trade does NOT affect the value of the vehicle being purchased.

Barry
As with almost everything there are no absolutes. If my inventory is low a trade-in can and will effect pricing. If the trade-in is something I feel I can move fairly quickly and the bike it is being traded against has been around a while I take that into consideration.

All of the adversarial and almost hostile posts in this thread are almost beyond belief. It must truly suck to not have good stores/dealerships in your area.

We must be blessed in the Northwest with a LOT of great dealerships. I can count on one hand the bad stores in Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Montana. (There were a few more but they did not survive the slowdown)
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014