ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-23-2006, 04:33 PM   #1
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
12GS - VSS or tapping ABS? (electronic cruise control)

Wow there are a lot of electronic cruise control mentions in here, but noone has posted methods for getting speed.

I can't get the audiovox unit many of you use, but I can get alternatives that pickup VSS signals or have a hall effect sensor and a few magnets you mount on a drive shaft or wheel.

Now, my 12gsa has abs and like all the 12's, has a hall effect sensor in the rear drive that does double duty as abs and road speed (I think that is how i'm reading the circuit diagram).

Has anyone ever tapped an abs sensor for a pulse signal to get a cruise working?

If you try to tap an injector/spark etc lead on a 12, where did you do it?

And finally, for those of you who go bush a lot or bury the bike on water crossings, any thoughts on whether electric units are sealed (vacuum ones certainly are not) or if you could add a snorkal to a vacuum unit?

bonox screwed with this post 10-30-2006 at 07:29 PM Reason: changed thread title to include phrase 'cruise control'
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 04:35 PM   #2
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
I should add here, that after pulling apart an RT and GS throttle cable splitter box, the housings appear to be identical and the only difference is that the RT has a second return line coming in on the RHS of the box, and a second quarter arc pull quadrant for the cruise actuator cable.

ie, if you want to put up with a single pull throttle cable, adding a cruise to a 12gs is a very simple affair of adding two new parts (a torsion spring and the cruise quadrant wheel).
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 08:27 PM   #3
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,702

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonox
. . . if you want to put up with a single pull throttle cable, adding a cruise to a 12gs is a very simple affair of adding two new parts (a torsion spring and the cruise quadrant wheel).
Can a return cable be added to the 12GS?

It seems from the information you gave about the spiltter box cable inputs, that the 12RT has a return cable coming from the grip. Does it?

- Jim

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 09:37 PM   #4
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside


Can a return cable be added to the 12GS?

It seems from the information you gave about the spiltter box cable inputs, that the 12RT has a return cable coming from the grip. Does it?

- Jim
yes it does. You could add a return cable if you want, but you'll need a new throttle grip assembly. Not too hard by any means. If you want to go the whole RT route, there is also a switch assembly in the splitter box the registers a cancel with rolling off the throttle firmly past 'zero'

None of that interests me though.

So, VSS or ABS signals anyone?
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 10:19 PM   #5
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,702

No that 's cool. You can run without a return. I'm just asking mang.

Does the cable drum on the throttle (heated) grip have two grooves in it? One for open and one for close? I understand there might be other hardware parts needed, but a new heated grip too?

What brand of cruise are you using? I'd like to download a manual and diagram before I get into this.

Hall Effect, Variable Reluctance (what I think the rear sensor is on your 1200), Coil Drive, Injector Drive, all can be used as a signal source for anything you might want, without harm to the bike. There might need to be some signal conditioning, depends on the sensor and the input circuit on the CC.

Where can I get a manual and diagram?

- Jim

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2006, 10:27 PM   #6
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
No that 's cool. You can run without a return. I'm just asking mang.

Does the cable drum on the throttle (heated) grip have two grooves in it? One for open and one for close? I understand there might be other hardware parts needed, but a new heated grip too?

What brand of cruise are you using? I'd like to download a manual and diagram before I get into this.

Hall Effect, Variable Reluctance (what I think the rear sensor is on your 1200), Coil Drive, Injector Drive, all can be used as a signal source for anything you might want, without harm to the bike. There might need to be some signal conditioning, depends on the sensor and the input circuit on the CC.

Where can I get a manual and diagram?

- Jim
not sure about user guides - you might try these for some generic ones though.

http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/cru...ser-guides.htm

i'm using a korean lite-on unit (AP-150)

No idea about number of grooves on the throttle tube, but by XX has a single cable that loops around the throttle tube and terminates in two lines at the throttle body. You may be able to retrofit an independent return line at the throttle tube if you wish. It is only a quarter turn, so coming in at top and bottom will not result in tangling as both lines will never overlap.

I've heard that some VSS signals on CANBUS cars are not clean enough (not sufficiently square edged) for the cheaper cruise units to utilise. I'm wondering if this is the case on a 12GS, and if it is, can i get the same info from the ABS sensor directly.

The only previous units i've used have been "mount a magnet on the wheel" affairs, and I can't find a place to do this on the GS. Have you any further info on filtering such signals? Are there circuit diagrams or premade boards out there for this?
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 02:46 AM   #7
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,702

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonox
No idea about number of grooves on the throttle tube, but by XX has a single cable that loops around the throttle tube and terminates in two lines at the throttle body. You may be able to retrofit an independent return line at the throttle tube if you wish. It is only a quarter turn, so coming in at top and bottom will not result in tangling as both lines will never overlap.
Opps, yea that's what I meant, that the cable groove is cut in the throttle tube in both directions from the ferrule hole. That’s how the 1150 throttle is. And the thing is, the hardware is in place for a return cable, but there is no return cable used.




Anyway, back to the electricity . . .

You are using a korean lite-on unit (AP-150)

The website had some useful information.

So, do you have an Oscilloscope or a VOM? I mean, before we get into this from our distant locations.

You can prolly get away with a low- to mid-grade digital meter. They will all have AC volts. And most of them have a 'frequency' setting.

The cheapest of the cheap digital may not be able to display the frequency of a multi-megahertz signal, but you don't need that kind of speed. If a meter has frequency capability, usually it will measure at least a 100kHz signal. That is 10x faster than you'll need.

Also, if you get or have a high-line meter, be sure that you understand the difference between high time, low time, cycle time, and frequency. At least, know which setting the meter is on. I can help out with the rest.

And, which 'PPM SET-UP setting' do you plan on using. The TACH, or the SPEED? It seems from what I've read on the site that it is possible to use just one if you wanted.

- Jim

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation

Poolside screwed with this post 10-24-2006 at 03:40 PM
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 03:59 PM   #8
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
Jim

Thanks for the comments - no scope but I could find a frequency DMM without much difficulty.

I'd like to use a VSS (something independent of gearing) which means the VSS or merely the rear ABS signal would be useful. If I can't use that without significant filtering, a signal from the spark plugs would be used instead. Is there likely to be a problem for the ecu/abs if I tap this signal though?

The other thing is that I don't know anything about it, but research on data sheets from other sensors seems to indicate the amplifiers on many of them peak at about half the input voltage - and many use maximum of 6V input (meaning a 3V peak output). Is this enough? Should I isolate it from the cruise unit somehow?

The alternative to this is installing a second hall effect sensor at the rear mud guard bracket, next to the original abs sensor and use its signal instead...

Thoughts?
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 04:39 PM   #9
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,702

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonox
Thanks for the comments - no scope but I could find a frequency DMM without much difficulty.

I'd like to use a VSS (something independent of gearing) which means the VSS or merely the rear ABS signal would be useful. If I can't use that without significant filtering, a signal from the spark plugs would be used instead. Is there likely to be a problem for the ecu/abs if I tap this signal though?

The other thing is that I don't know anything about it, but research on data sheets from other sensors seems to indicate the amplifiers on many of them peak at about half the input voltage - and many use maximum of 6V input (meaning a 3V peak output). Is this enough? Should I isolate it from the cruise unit somehow?
You bet. And good. And if we are lucky, we won't even need it.

Ok, if wheel speed is preferable, then wheel speed via Variable Reluctance sensor it is. I know it's been called a Hall Effect sensor, but I am more sure that it’s a VR sensor.

- In the meantime, do you have a basic digital meter that measures ACV? I mean, a $5 special will work as long as it's digital.

- And, is the ABS sensor is a 2-wire device?

- Can you get to the rear sensor connector?

- This is for a R12GS yes?

If yes, yes, yes, yes . . . want to try something? I affirm it cannot damage anything. I've done it 100s of times.

- Jim

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 04:43 PM   #10
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
why not - can't do it right now of course, but when i can i'll try it.

I have an AC capable DMM here and can get a frequency one by borrowing so that's not a problem.

Two wire VR, 12GS - can get to the sensor, but might be easier to dig through the wiring harness further up - I can't remember if there is a plug on the VR sensor, but I think it might be sealed. If it is a test of the sensor only, I could certainly pull the plug at the ecu or where ever it terminates (i'll need to find where that is, but fear not, I will.)

Fire away
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 05:13 PM   #11
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,702

The illustration shows the connector for the rear sensor right under the seat. Ziptied to one of the subframe cross members. Easy as pie.

Unplug the sensor connector.

Connect the meter leads to the sensor side. Polarity is unimportant.

Be sure the leads are plugged into the correct jacks on the meter for an ACV reading.

- What ACV ranges does the meter have?

Figure the signal will start at zero and prolly get no higher than 15VAC. If the signal goes off scale high, just click the voltage range up a notch. It won't hurt anything if that happens. Try not to use auto-ranging for this measurement.

Spin the wheel by hand in either direction.

Let me know what the meter reads. Play around with different speeds.

And oh yes, do not turn on the ignition key while the sensor is unplugged. It will generate a 'sensor fault'. If the key is off, it will be fine.

Disconnecting the wheel sensor may concern you, so if you really really want to be certain, disconnect the battery before disconnecting the sensor. I suppose there is an outside chance that the ABS controller is active even when the ignition key is off.

- Jim

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 05:17 PM   #12
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside
The illustration shows the connector for the rear sensor right under the seat. Ziptied to one of the subframe cross members. Easy as pie.
umm, no picture, but i'll get back to you.

Cheers Jim.
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 05:19 PM   #13
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,702

Ooops, the illustration I'm looking at . . .

- Jim

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 08:19 PM   #14
bonox OP
Tryin Hard
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: sydney
Oddometer: 2,932
Found the ABS plug under the seat - had trouble registering any AC signal at all (ie I didn't get anything). Admittedly I was only spinning the wheel at what I would guess is 10km/h as a maximum, but couldn't get any voltage. (meter is supposed to resolve to 0.1V)

Don't take this as gospel though - I may just need help in having someone else spin the wheel while I try to take readings. I'll try again later.
bonox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2006, 08:36 PM   #15
Poolside
Syndicated
 
Poolside's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Oddometer: 11,702

Does the meter work on AC?
It is switched to AC?
Or, are the leads plugged into the jacks for ACV?
Meters are configured in many different ways.

Plug it into a wall outlet for 117 or 234. Does AU use 234VAC? (i.e. 220, 230, 240)
Can you post a pic of the meter in use?
One that shows the legend for the lead jacks?

- Jim

__________________

IICE Air Hotrod your GS  Fuel Injection  Tech Info  Buy  Order List  Installation
Poolside is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 10:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014