ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-17-2012, 07:49 PM   #61
vacantstare
Gnarly Adventurer
 
vacantstare's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Oddometer: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Matson View Post
I went the other way. I bought the old bike (1975 Norton Commando) then brought it into the new age of motorcycling with all the trick components. Brembo brakes, electronic ignition, neg ground system with a Shorai battery, lightweight new electric starter, hydraulic clutch, adjustable forks, modern switch gear, Excell rims, and lots of other little parts. This gave me a classic bike that runs and rides like a new bike but has that character you just can't get enough of. Down side is I could have bought two new Triumphs, but you know what they say, "If money was so important they wouldn't make it out of paper".
Wow

that has SO much more class than any catalog cafe racer that any zero talent putz could build out of a modern 'thaiumph'. Well done. Truly a thing of beauty.
vacantstare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 08:17 PM   #62
JerryH
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,069
The problem I see with most retro styled bikes is that they are like a PT Cruiser. They mimic old bikes, but are otherwise totally modern. They have the look without the substance. The Bonneville is a good example. While it does not look as good to me as the mid '60s Bonnevilles, it does look good. The W650 looks better. I see no reason why Triumph had to put a fat tank and that ugly kink in the exhaust on it, Kawasaki didn't. I have never ridden a W650, but I owned a '66 Bonneville for about 3 years, and have ridden the new one. Two totally different bikes. Since they are both 360 degree twins, I'm assuming louder pipes would solve the lack of sound issue, but I see no way to get the vibration of the original, and that was a big part of what I loved about it. I'm fairly certain they could have made a few minor design changes, and seriously increased the quality, and kept the character of the original.

Someone mentioned the CB1100. It sure does look nice. A four into four exhaust would have looked nicer. But I can't help but think it will sound and feel like the late CB750 Nighthawk, an excellent transportation bike, but a far cry from the original SOHC 750, which I have also ridden. That bike had a very different sound than modern inline fours, it roared instead of whimpered. And it also had some vibration. Not like the Triumph, but enough to feel. Again, I see no reason why they could not have simply made a copy of the original but with some modern engineering and manufacturing technology. Why does it need 2 cams? The character of the original 750 changed drastically when they went to a DOHC design

It seems like the only manufacturer that still has the sound and feel of their old bikes is Harley. They will still shake your teeth out, but you do have to put aftermarket pipes on them to get the sound back. But you can probably blame the EPA or DOT for that. I don't understand Harley's switch to two cams, counterbalancers, and their associated problems, the Harley engine is not about performance. It is still a pushrod design with 2 valves per cylinder, 45 degree single crankpin long stroke v-twin with an uneven firing order, as it should be, I have no idea what the extra cam was for. If people did not like the "character" of the old style Harley engine, they would all be buying V-Rods, but they aren't. Many don't even consider the V-Rod to be a "real" Harley. And not all of them wear pirate costumes.


Another bike that could have been a great retro bike, if properly manufactured, out of decent metal, was the pre unit Royal Enfield Bullet. There is no reason that bike could not have been made as reliable as any modern 500cc single, while still retaining it's vintage look, sound, and feel. All of the engineering design changes could have been hidden. Instead they come out with a unit construction engine, fuel injection and hydraulic valves, and while the bike still retains much of it's character and looks, it is still unreliable.


As for motorcycles and technology, I just don't get it. A motorcycle is about the most basic vehicle there is. 2 wheels, an engine, a frame to bolt them to, a seat to sit on, footpegs, handlebars and forks to steer with, and on more modern bikes, suspension to help it ride more comfortably, though there are still quite a few hardtails still around. A motorcycle should not be about technology, it should be about avoiding technology. There is no reason a new motorcycle cannot be made with ancient technology, and still be just as reliable as a new motorcycle with new technology. I get the feeling that most riders would actually rather ride an electric motorcycle if it had the same performance and range as a gas powered one. You could ride down the road in total silence with no vibration. But then why not just sit down in your recliner in your living room and watch a ride video on the big screen? You could even drink beer while doing it.
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 08:22 PM   #63
JerryH
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Oddometer: 5,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Matson View Post
I went the other way. I bought the old bike (1975 Norton Commando) then brought it into the new age of motorcycling with all the trick components. Brembo brakes, electronic ignition, neg ground system with a Shorai battery, lightweight new electric starter, hydraulic clutch, adjustable forks, modern switch gear, Excell rims, and lots of other little parts. This gave me a classic bike that runs and rides like a new bike but has that character you just can't get enough of. Down side is I could have bought two new Triumphs, but you know what they say, "If money was so important they wouldn't make it out of paper".
Way to go with that beautiful old Norton. That bike is worth the price of 2 new Triumphs. The real shame of it is, it is still possible to manufacture pretty much that exact bike, but with modern reliability, for a lot less than what it cost you. Triumph chose to go the "looks only" route.
JerryH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 09:13 PM   #64
9990
Adventurer
 
9990's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Behind a desk, itching to ride
Oddometer: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
...and got very poor mileage,and made about 38 hp from a 900cc engine. Well over 500 lbs dry. Slow? Dont Ask.
You're a little off on the HP there...
67 bhp at the crank and 58 hp at the rear wheel:

http://m.motorcycle-usa.com/254/4473...omparison.aspx
__________________
current: Triumph Bonneville
previous: HD Street Glide, Triumph Sprint RS 955i, Triumph Tiger 800, Triumph Speedmaster
9990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 09:47 PM   #65
9990
Adventurer
 
9990's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Behind a desk, itching to ride
Oddometer: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
I fell for the Scrambler,
...
it held very little gas,and got very poor mileage,and made about 38 hp from a 900cc engine. Well over 500 lbs dry. Slow? Dont Ask.

Hmm, I was going to correct you based on the Bonneville, which makes 67 bhp at the crank and 58 hp at the rear wheel:

Bonnie:

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/range/classics/bonneville/2012/bonneville/21366

67 bhp / 50 ft-lbs

And here's the 58 hp at the rear wheel measurement:

http://m.motorcycle-usa.com/254/4473/Motorcycle-Article/2009-Triumph-Bonneville-SE-Comparison.aspx


But the Scrambler only makes 58 bhp! What did they do to the engine?

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/range/classics/scrambler/2012/scrambler/20984

58 bhp / 50 ft-lbs

Though I think your figure of 38 is still low.
__________________
current: Triumph Bonneville
previous: HD Street Glide, Triumph Sprint RS 955i, Triumph Tiger 800, Triumph Speedmaster

9990 screwed with this post 12-17-2012 at 09:57 PM
9990 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 10:26 PM   #66
oalvarez
Resident Raggamuffin
 
oalvarez's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: CA HWY 2
Oddometer: 2,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The problem I see with most retro styled bikes is that they are like a PT Cruiser. They mimic old bikes, but are otherwise totally modern. They have the look without the substance..........
Or the relevance. They do look good though for the most part.
__________________
2014 Ducati MTS1200S
2012 Vespa 300 Super
past: Ducatis, Aprilias, Moto Guzzis, a Husky, KTM 1290 SDR, and some BMWs as well.
oalvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 10:33 PM   #67
Duck Dodgers
Rock n Roll Refugee
 
Duck Dodgers's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: The muddle of Kalifornia
Oddometer: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyr View Post
So, why did you do it? There are plenty of better designs out there; more horsepower, better handling, but you went and paid alot of money to drive 1970's ('60's, 50's) technology.
It was either that or a New Porche, a divorce and a 25 year old hard body. The Bonneville was waaaaaaay cheaper.
__________________
I ride because I still can. It just takes longer than it used to.
Duck Dodgers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #68
Vertical C
Beastly Adventurer
 
Vertical C's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Oddometer: 2,395
Sweet Norton, you can always make more money.
Vertical C is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 12:01 AM   #69
Scrivens
Studly Adventurer
 
Scrivens's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: usually the garage
Oddometer: 524
I own a Kawasaki W800 and an 883 standard Sportster as far as retros go. I bought the 800 because I grew up riding Brit bikes and like the size, the weight and the power. The 800 is one of the few bikes around that is the same size as an old BSA - about 2/3 the size of a current Bonneville - makes around the same hp and torque (and in the same places) as a singe carb 650, has a 'proper' upright riding position and handles much like an old Brit twin. The engine even sounds and feels a lot like my Thunderbolt. It is a bit heavier, does have EFI and a front disk, but it is still a fairly basic 360 degree big twin. Like old Sportsters, airhead BMs, Guzzis and old Ducatis, it is simply a lot of fun to ride.

Scrivens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 03:19 AM   #70
Nadgett
Studly Adventurer
 
Nadgett's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Slovenia
Oddometer: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post

It seems like the only manufacturer that still has the sound and feel of their old bikes is Harley. They will still shake your teeth out, but you do have to put aftermarket pipes on them to get the sound back.
You'd have to have pretty loose teeth. I can't say about the big twins, but the modern Sportsters with rubber engine mounts are as smooth as any bike I've ever ridden.
Nadgett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 04:17 AM   #71
KingOfFleece
SplitWeight(tm)
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Western New York
Oddometer: 762
There's a bunch of us who had all the old iron-and loved it. Plenty of us now own a retro style bike as it does a fair job of reminding us of that great old iron and lets us forget all the tinkering we needed to do to keep it running. That's no crime.
KingOfFleece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 06:52 AM   #72
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,376
I bought my retro styled bike because I like the style, having grown up on old bikes.
I also like it because its useful and easy to service.
Its got a seat that is nice for 2 people, its got a luggaage rack with a tail bag on it that makes it handy for picking stuff up at the store, and I can have fun on it running to the store a mile or two away, or on an all day solo ride, or a sporty ride in the twisty's, or a nice 2 up ride with the wife on the back.

I find almost all modern bikes incredibly ugly, and as great as they may be, I would not want to own something I could not stand the sight of.
Many seem to have no real seat for a passenger, no place to strap things on, not be very comfortable for a 14 hour ride, heavy, expensive, complex and ugly.
They might be able to do 100 mph in 1st gear, but around here that will just get you locked up, and riding around like a slug on a fast bike must be very boring.
NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 08:29 AM   #73
Cakeeater
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Where it snows a lot
Oddometer: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I bought my retro styled bike because I like the style, having grown up on old bikes.
I also like it because its useful and easy to service.
Its got a seat that is nice for 2 people, its got a luggaage rack with a tail bag on it that makes it handy for picking stuff up at the store, and I can have fun on it running to the store a mile or two away, or on an all day solo ride, or a sporty ride in the twisty's, or a nice 2 up ride with the wife on the back.

I find almost all modern bikes incredibly ugly, and as great as they may be, I would not want to own something I could not stand the sight of.
Many seem to have no real seat for a passenger, no place to strap things on, not be very comfortable for a 14 hour ride, heavy, expensive, complex and ugly.
They might be able to do 100 mph in 1st gear, but around here that will just get you locked up, and riding around like a slug on a fast bike must be very boring.
Preach it.

I fell out of motorcycling in the mid-90s. Never had a use for a 'sport' motorcycle that couldn't carry a lady, or something strapped to the rack on back. NowI'm back into it on a bike that hasn't changed much in form for many years (Harley touring bike).

As much as I appreciate a fast replic-racer street bike, if I had one it would sit in the garage and gather dust. I speed too much on my Road Glide as it is.

Cakeeater
Cakeeater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 08:51 AM   #74
motorat
TBD
 
motorat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: redwood coast, nor cal
Oddometer: 902
why retro? mainly the simplicity of the machine.
i find that the older i get the less hassle i want from my motorcycle.
i like to do my own maintence and not having all that plastic is nice.
i love the light weight of the bike and i even like the vibration, it gives
the bike more character. for riding on the back roads it is a great
companion and really likes to just wind through the curves.
__________________
to ignore the facts does not change the facts
motorat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 09:09 AM   #75
scootrboi
Beastly Adventurer
 
scootrboi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 1,462
I was pinstriping a set of vintage R69 saddlebags for an old customer, and stopped to admire the machine they were on. I have never owned a BMW, but always wanted one. I said to him, "It is hard to believe the company that made this beautiful machine are making the BMWs that are out now." He agreed wholeheartedly. We are sort of old guys, late 50s, and we have old German machines. We do all our own work on them. I look at the new bikes in general, scooters too, and they all have the same basic styling theme,a repeated dive into the ground angle for the plastic bodywork and mufflers. For the most part, there is a choice between a laid back sit on the base of your spine cruiser or a race replica that puts the rider so prone that it is necessary to operate the bike with one hand and switch arms periodically, and turning one's head gets a peripheral vision of the sky. Part of the pleasure of driving a standard motorcycle is that it is set up for operating within or close to speed limits and having a clear view of traffic. If I had a 120mph motorcycle I would feel like a pilot who could only experience the ground taxiing qualities of his airplane.I don't think retro is a matter of style. Motorcycles traditionally have been for the most part Spartan designs, with a cleanness and honesty and minimum of adornment. Styling is what has taken over, and style is what disturbs me.
scootrboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014