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Old 01-02-2013, 01:00 AM   #286
atomicalex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Everything in and on a German motor vehicle has to sport a TUV stamp, and that's nanny state crap at its worst. It stifles individuality.
?? Then why are the tuning part catalogues in Germany so much thicker than the ones in the US? I've been tuning cars for a while, the TÜV is annoying, but it hardly "stifles individuality". There are about a hundred ways to get TÜV exemptions, and it's a shit-ton easier to get around the rules here than it is to get around CARB. It's also a hell of a lot easier to get a part registered with the TÜV, making fooling around with exemptions barely worth it. 95% of it is proving that manufactured part will conform to the data sheet. The part doesn't even have to work, for goodness sake.

Are you aware of the level of DOT conformation that is required in the US? Most tuning parts in the US are sold for off-road use only, and can invalidate insurance, warranties, and other financial protections. The difference in Germany is that they are much more up front about the whole approval thing. You run non-approved parts, you lose financial privileges. It's generally the same in the US, but no one tells you about it. You only find out after the fact. Which can suck, especially when expressing your individuality results in you being assigned 100% of the fault in an accident. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
...of course there are Germans who are not happy with the German mindset. Some of us really adore the americon love for freedom.
Yes, I know. The Marlboro mindset in Germany is impressive. Like the people in the US who crave "german health care", the people in Germany who crave "american liberty" have an idealistic and limited notion of what they are actually talking about.

OTOH, my favorite thing about Germany is the personal freedom people have to be who they are and not put up a front about it. There are no Southern Belles over there, talking out of their asses. People tell you up front what they think and there is no shame or crime in it. They have purple hair and wear truly awful color combos and express their individuality in ways that no American would ever be comfortable doing, due to the ridiculous social pressure in the US to conform to the norm of the week.

last shout on OSHA - I do agree that there are some ridiculous regs out there. I don't agree with throwing out the 98% of good regs because 2% are silly or onerous.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:33 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
philb i've said it before on this thread. Clear concise thinking. I only wish i could express my thoughts as eloquently as you. I just tend to get mad at people too stupid to see what is happening around them and to ignorant of history to know why it makes a difference.
Somewhat on topic.

+1

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Old 01-02-2013, 05:21 AM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
This was the decision of 25 state Supreme Courts
the state constitutionality of helmets laws passed by legislatures and signed by governors has been challenged in 25 states ?
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:23 AM   #289
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Fact�The highest courts in more than 25 states have held motorcycle helmet laws to be constitutional. The Massachusetts motorcycle helmet law was affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court.


Straight from the NHTSA.

Apology accepted.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:36 AM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
Fact�The highest courts in more than 25 states have held motorcycle helmet laws to be constitutional. The Massachusetts motorcycle helmet law was affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court.


Straight from the NHTSA.

Apology accepted.
and you believe that cause you read it on the internet, must be true eh

sources of specific 25 cases you refer too please
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:02 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
and you believe that cause you read it on the internet, must be true eh

sources of specific 25 cases you refer too please
+1 29 States allow choice. Just how many states are there?

Perhaps it is only in BobbySandy's "state of mind"

You really should put your energies behind rider education Mr Sands. It would do more good. But don't mandate it or I will fight against you on that too.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:18 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
+1 29 States allow choice. Just how many states are there?

Perhaps it is only in BobbySandy's "state of mind"

You really should put your energies behind rider education Mr Sands. It would do more good. But don't mandate it or I will fight against you on that too.
No, I think he actually read it on a website
a .gov website at that, so it must be true eh

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/p...ike/myths.html
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:54 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
No, I think he actually read it on a website
a .gov website at that, so it must be true eh

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/p...ike/myths.html
The peoples republic of the Not-so United states.

His leader thinks there are 57 states. One for every flavor of Heinz.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:47 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
?? Then why are the tuning part catalogues in Germany so much thicker than the ones in the US? I've been tuning cars for a while, the TÜV is annoying, but it hardly "stifles individuality". There are about a hundred ways to get TÜV exemptions, and it's a shit-ton easier to get around the rules here than it is to get around CARB. It's also a hell of a lot easier to get a part registered with the TÜV, making fooling around with exemptions barely worth it. 95% of it is proving that manufactured part will conform to the data sheet. The part doesn't even have to work, for goodness sake.

Are you aware of the level of DOT conformation that is required in the US? Most tuning parts in the US are sold for off-road use only, and can invalidate insurance, warranties, and other financial protections. The difference in Germany is that they are much more up front about the whole approval thing. You run non-approved parts, you lose financial privileges. It's generally the same in the US, but no one tells you about it. You only find out after the fact. Which can suck, especially when expressing your individuality results in you being assigned 100% of the fault in an accident. :)

Yes, I know. The Marlboro mindset in Germany is impressive. Like the people in the US who crave "german health care", the people in Germany who crave "american liberty" have an idealistic and limited notion of what they are actually talking about.

OTOH, my favorite thing about Germany is the personal freedom people have to be who they are and not put up a front about it. There are no Southern Belles over there, talking out of their asses. People tell you up front what they think and there is no shame or crime in it. They have purple hair and wear truly awful color combos and express their individuality in ways that no American would ever be comfortable doing, due to the ridiculous social pressure in the US to conform to the norm of the week.

last shout on OSHA - I do agree that there are some ridiculous regs out there. I don't agree with throwing out the 98% of good regs because 2% are silly or onerous.
So, if it's so great over there, why would you want to return to the USA, a nation and its people that you have been denigrating for most of this thread?
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:20 AM   #295
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Question Wtf

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
So, if it's so great over there, why would you want to return to the USA, a nation and its people that you have been denigrating for most of this thread?

Hey ttpete, that isn't even really an argument, is it now!?!?

I see Atomicalex rationally discussing differences between two countries, not denigrating either at all.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Everything in and on a German motor vehicle has to sport a TUV stamp, and that's nanny state crap at its worst. It stifles individuality. I have no use for Socialism.

Atomicalex responded to your comment by cogently pointing out that the TÜV is essentially analogous to the DOT.

If you believen that the regulation of manufacturing of automobiles for safety's sake is evidence

of "nanny-state" SOCIALISM, then it follows that you live in a SOCIALIST "nanny-state".




(Before everyone flames me, let me point out that I DO NOT believe either

the US or Deutschland to be SOCIALIST "nanny-states".)
.
.
.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by DOGSROOT View Post
Hey ttpete, that isn't even really an argument, is it now!?!?

I see Atomicalex rationally discussing differences between two countries, not denigrating either at all.








Atomicalex responded to your comment by cogently pointing out that the TÜV is essentially analogous to the DOT.

If you believen that the regulation of manufacturing of automobiles for safety's sake is evidence

of "nanny-state" SOCIALISM, then it follows that you live in a SOCIALIST "nanny-state".




(Before everyone flames me, let me point out that I DO NOT believe either

the US or Deutschland to be SOCIALIST "nanny-states".)
.
.
.
Actually, Germany belongs to this group:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_o...Member_parties

The USA is a Constitutional Republic. The Socialist and Communist parties here have never had any real support.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:58 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyo View Post
and you believe that cause you read it on the internet, must be true eh

sources of specific 25 cases you refer too please

Get off your dead arse and start looking. Otherwise, shhhh.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:22 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
Get off your dead arse and start looking. Otherwise, shhhh.
Telling.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:49 PM   #299
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Bluhduh Hold on there, Pistol Packin Ttpete...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Actually, Germany belongs to this group:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_o...Member_parties

The USA is a Constitutional Republic. The Socialist and Communist parties here have never had any real support.


No, the Federal Republic of Germany actually does not belong to that group, ttpete.

From your link:

"The PES comprises national-level political parties primarily from member states of the

European Union (EU), and other nations of the European continent"

Furthermore, the chart that your link contained specified that the Socail Democratic Party (SPD),

a German political party that does belong to the PES, has only 146 Members of the Bundestag,

out of a possible 620, or 23.5%.

The Christian Democratic Union (CDU/CSU), the right of centre party, has 31.2%, and 100% of them would

take extreme umbrage at being called SOCIALISTS.

The Free Democratic Party (FDP) holds 93 seats, or 15% of the MdB.

The FDP and the CDU/CSU have formed a coalition to rule as a centre-right government.

Simple.




As to the US being a federal constitutional republic, you are correct, but, as Germany is a

federal parliamentary republic, (w/ a constitution) I wonder what your point is in mentioning that.

Hers a link for ya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundest..._the_Bundestag

It shows that German political parties such as the Marxist Leninist Party, or the German Communist Party,

or The Republicans, or even the Pirate Party all get so few votes it registers as <0% of the vote.

The SDP is SOCIALIST in name only, kinda like the NAZIS.




More to the point, the DOT is analogous to the TÜV, and Atomicalex's posts read like a patriot's
.




.
.
.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:30 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbySands View Post
Did you employ the Supreme Courts proof test about whether requiring helmets for every pedestrian would be overly burdensome or haven't you read that part of the thread?

My post is simply an inflammatory waste time and makes the author look foolish.
Go on and explain to us why the ten seconds to put on a helmet are overly burdensome to the pedestrian. Why should I pay even a cent of the medical costs of such stupid, extremely selfish people, who are walking around between heavy, fast moving vehicles, operated by bad drivers, without any safety gear?


Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
Yes, I know. The Marlboro mindset in Germany is impressive. Like the people in the US who crave "german health care", the people in Germany who crave "american liberty" have an idealistic and limited notion of what they are actually talking about.

OTOH, my favorite thing about Germany is the personal freedom people have to be who they are and not put up a front about it. There are no Southern Belles over there, talking out of their asses. People tell you up front what they think and there is no shame or crime in it. They have purple hair and wear truly awful color combos and express their individuality in ways that no American would ever be comfortable doing, due to the ridiculous social pressure in the US to conform to the norm of the week.
Lucky you if you experienced it that way. Or just very idealistic and limited.
I know very well what it is like to express the "wrong" opinion or to wear the "wrong" clothes. It goes as far as your teachers(!) stealing parts of your clothing.

I don't know much about a "Marlboro mindset" but I can see the differences when topics like this one are discussed by Americans or the ones who are against helmet laws are flamed down by a crowd of Germans.
Telling up front what you think, you will likely have a hard time in Germany, if it's the "wrong" thought. Purple hair might be ok, being a waitress with a tongue piercing on the other hand may lead to an elderly lady agitating against you behind your back.
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