Confused! Help from users.What are connection options for Nav I4, headset, and iPhone

[mx125]

I know there are bits and pieces in a million threads, but I'm completely confused!

I have a bike on order with the Nav4, own an iPhone and need to order headset. Without getting into headset specifics . . .

I think my confusion stems from reality that iPhone is phone AND MP3 player. I assume i'll pair with GPS for nav commands. As I understand it, unless I can move all my audiobooks and music to GPS I will have to control from my iPhone direct to bt headset. That's fine.

But does this mean I can't control my phone (dial numbers, see incoming calls etc.) from the GPS?

In other words, If I had separate iPod I could pair that to bt headset and pair the "phone" with the GPS . . . Or. Is the "phone" and the "music player" in iPhone are treated separately??
Uggg.

[BlueLghtning]

Originally Posted by mx125

I know there are bits and pieces in a million threads, but I'm completely confused!

I have a bike on order with the Nav4, own an iPhone and need to order headset. Without getting into headset specifics . . .

I think my confusion stems from reality that iPhone is phone AND MP3 player. I assume i'll pair with GPS for nav commands. As I understand it, unless I can move all my audiobooks and music to GPS I will have to control from my iPhone direct to bt headset. That's fine.

But does this mean I can't control my phone (dial numbers, see incoming calls etc.) from the GPS?

In other words, If I had separate iPod I could pair that to bt headset and pair the "phone" with the GPS . . . Or. Is the "phone" and the "music player" in iPhone are treated separately??
Uggg.

Let me see if I can help you out here and not get too technical on you.

I don't know where your knowledge is on BT profiles but there's 2 different sets of BT profiles in play here and they do different things. In your case how the iPhone & this BMW Nav IV treat these BT profiles and connecting to devices is going to come into play.

HFP/HSP = Handfree proflie and headset profile. They generally go hand in hand and work together. Most times, you'll just see it referred to as HFP, but generally both profiles are connecting together depending on the devices involved. This is mono BT connection and is basically for phone calls through your phone and/or GPS navigation instructions.

A2DP/AVRCRP = Stereo BT music. A2DP is what provides your music in BT stereo sound and AVRCP allows you to control you music without touching the device. Again, mostly referred to as A2DP, but if the device doesn't support AVRCP, you can't control your music from that device only listen through the device. This is Stereo BT. Generally only music or media sounds are played through this profile. A2DP is a one way connection only.

So, with that said let's start with the HFP profile. This is the connection your phone uses to pair with a BT headset to talk on the phone or to a GPS which can act as a bridge between the phone and your BT headset. GPS's in general connect via the HFP profile also to give you nav instructions and/or control and allow you to talk on your phone. Your phone can only connect to one HFP device at a time. So its either connected to your headset which means you can take/answer calls on your iPhone through your BT headset, but then you can't control the phone through the GPS because they won't be connected. As mentioned above, you can also pair your iPhone to your GPS and then the GPS to the BT headset which again gives you ability to talk/answer calls, but you can also control your phone via the GPS screen, and you'll get nav prompts from the GPS if you so choose to set it up that way.

Now, here's where it gets tricky. In a perfect world, you should be able to pair your iPhone to the GPS for phone stuff and then also pair your iPhone to your BT headset for music. It's called selective pairing. It's two different profiles and they are completely different and independent of each other. However, the iPhone (with out being jailbroken) doesn't like to be connected to 2 devices at the same time and won't allow this. So to the answer to your question, if you pair your iPhone to the GPS, you can't also use it as a music player. You can only use it as a music player if you pair it directly to the BT headset with both profiles connected. as an FYI, most Android phones do support selective pairing. As so many things the iPhone does very well, it sucks in this aspect of BT pairings.

There's another caveat in here too and you'll probably really not like this one. I'm not certain what GPS the Nav IV is, but if its basically Garmin's Zumo 660/665 rebadged for BMW, then you have another problem at hand. The Garmin Zumo 660 is one of the GPS that support A2DP (BT Stereo Music). This is great if you plan on listening to XM or MP3's or whatever through the GPS as it can connect with both the HFP profile for phone/GPS and the A2DP for music. The problem is, Garmin's Zumo 660/665 is a BT profile hog and basically always connects with both the HFP & the A2DP profile even if you aren't listening to music through it. If you try to do a selective pairing with the 660, it will basically keep disconnecting because its trying to connect both profiles. So let's say you actually wanted your phone connected to your GPS and you were going to run a dedicated Ipod for music since I already explained your phone can't do both. (Another example you brought up with the iPod). Well, the Zumo says too bad and hogs that A2DP profile and that leaves nothing for the Ipod to connect to for music. :(

So basically short answer to this is if that is a Zumo 660/665 and you plan on listening to music through your GPS for XM, MP3, and just connecting your phone to the GPS, you'll be fine. But if you try to run any kind of separate music device, you are going to have issues.

Edit: It does look like the Nav IV is basically the Zumo 660, so what I said should hold true. Its possible that BMW has different software that actually behaves like it should, but from everything I've read with the Zumo 660/665 threads, the BT being a profile hog is a huge deal a lot of people run into.

[mx125]

Well . . that's a spectacular answer! Not great news. .as you described . . but completely and thoroughly answers my question. I appreciate it . .and think I'm starting to understand the mystery of BT connections.

Yes, it is a zumo 660 basically (or exactly other than FW) and sounds like I'm limited to making a choice. If voice command actually works (on a Cardo G9 as example), although I've never trusted it in the car . . .then maybe i pair the phone with the headset for music and phone . . .and if I understand correctly . . pair the gps to the headset for voice prompt only.

If the GPS voice prompt isn't an option . .no great loss. I tend to use visual promps anyway. Audiobooks and phone are more important to me.

Alternately . .for long trips, I suppose I can sort out the copying of lots of non-copy protected podcasts etc to the zumo itself and go fully with the all zumo option as you described.

[BlueLghtning]

Since I explained the BT profiles to you, if you haven't picked out a headset yet, there are a few things to keep in mind.

The majority of the headsets out there today support 1 HFP connection and 1 A2DP connection. Basically that means you could pair your iPhone directly to the headset and it would take both profiles, OR you could pair your Nav IV and it would take both profiles. You couldn't have both paired and connected on most headsets because there's not enough profiles available.

The one exception to this is the Sena SMH10. I started as a Scala Q2 user, but now am a Sena SMH10 user and very happy with my Sena. In the 4.0 update to the Sena SMH10, it received a 2nd HFP connection that is called "multi-point" pairing. So that means there are 2 HFP connections and 1 A2DP connection. It doesn't really solve your issue with the devices fighting over the A2DP connection since there is still only one of them. Sena created this 2nd HFP connection so people could pair their SR10 BT hub and not have to worry about their phone or GPS using the main 2 connections being interrupted.

Technically you could use the SR10 to hardwire your Nav IV into that device and get navigation through HFP only and not have to worry about the A2DP trying to connect since its disabled when a physical audio cord is plugged into the GPS. Your IPhone could be directly connected to the SMH10 via both profiles to give you both phone & music, and the Nav IV would come in through the SR10 on the 2nd HFP connection for navigation instructions. The only thing missing here is that you wouldn't have control of your phone through your GPS, but my understanding is SIRI does a pretty good job on the voice control stuff.

[BlueLghtning]

Originally Posted by mx125

Well . . that's a spectacular answer! Not great news. .as you described . . but completely and thoroughly answers my question. I appreciate it . .and think I'm starting to understand the mystery of BT connections.

Yes, it is a zumo 660 basically (or exactly other than FW) and sounds like I'm limited to making a choice. If voice command actually works (on a Cardo G9 as example), although I've never trusted it in the car . . .then maybe i pair the phone with the headset for music and phone . . .and if I understand correctly . . pair the gps to the headset for voice prompt only.

If the GPS voice prompt isn't an option . .no great loss. I tend to use visual promps anyway. Audiobooks and phone are more important to me.

Alternately . .for long trips, I suppose I can sort out the copying of lots of non-copy protected podcasts etc to the zumo itself and go fully with the all zumo option as you described.

See my post above where I went into more detail about headsets and what profiles they each support. If you are actually planning on the Cardo G9, you run into the issue that there is only one HFP connection available and one A2DP connection. So if you pair your phone, that doesn't leave any for the GPS.

The biggest issue here is the Zumo and how it takes both profiles. If Garmin could just change that, than a Sena SMH10 would basically be the prefect setup with 2 HFP connections and 1 A2DP connection.

BTW, my understanding is Siri works pretty well through the BT headsets. This is where iPhone has a big advantage over Android, so I guess they even out.

[mx125]

Right. Ok . . .that makes sense. Agreed that Garmin really should make more of an effort to build some flexibility into their BT.

But important point on the Sena SMH10. I'm definitely not sold on any headset yet . . that's my next step. I appreciate that insight.

I'm really only in need of solo options. . .multi riders/passengers of no value to me. . .and I always wear earplugs. My old Scala (Q1??) was mono and although I had to keep speakers at full volume, i could hear with foam plugs in at normal highway speeds. So looking for more volume, unless i go with a BT unit that has a plug-in for noise isolating earbuds (?) like my retired er6i's. However, that is a whole different topic I don't mean to drag you into.

It's unfortunate (and surprising, actually!) that these connection issues haven't evolved since 2005 when I bought my prior GS and zumo 550. Perhaps the new RT/GT radio system with ipod connection is more current. However, I've ordered a GS.

Thanks again.

[BlueLghtning]

Originally Posted by mx125

Right. Ok . . .that makes sense. Agreed that Garmin really should make more of an effort to build some flexibility into their BT.

But important point on the Sena SMH10. I'm definitely not sold on any headset yet . . that's my next step. I appreciate that insight.

I'm really only in need of solo options. . .multi riders/passengers of no value to me. . .and I always wear earplugs. My old Scala (Q1??) was mono and although I had to keep speakers at full volume, i could hear with foam plugs in at normal highway speeds. So looking for more volume, unless i go with a BT unit that has a plug-in for noise isolating earbuds (?) like my retired er6i's. However, that is a whole different topic I don't mean to drag you into.

It's unfortunate (and surprising, actually!) that these connection issues haven't evolved since 2005 when I bought my prior GS and zumo 550. Perhaps the new RT/GT radio system with ipod connection is more current. However, I've ordered a GS.

Thanks again.

If using your own ear buds like the ER-6i's is important to you, then the Sena SMH10 has that option with an optional base plate with a ear bud plug in. I actually have this setup with the ER6i's and the ear bud clamp and it works nice. Even if you do wear ear plugs with the speakers, the Sena SMH10's do get loud enough to hear. Of course speaker placement is critical.

Yeah, isn't it something that Garmin screwed up on the Zumo 550 which didn't have BT stereo even though it had been out a long time and now the Zumo 660 has stereo BT, but it hogs the profile.

There's a good thread in the equipment section about the Sena SMH10 with lots of help and I'm in there too pretty frequently to help. I know there's a guy in there that does the Sena SMH10 + Sena SR10 + Zumo 660 + smartphone so you could get info on that too if that ends up being a possibility.

[mx125]

Originally Posted by BlueLghtning

If using your own ear buds like the ER-6i's is important to you, then the Sena SMH10 has that option with an optional base plate with a ear bud plug in. I actually have this setup with the ER6i's and the ear bud clamp and it works nice. Even if you do wear ear plugs with the speakers, the Sena SMH10's do get loud enough to hear. Of course speaker placement is critical.

Yeah, isn't it something that Garmin screwed up on the Zumo 550 which didn't have BT stereo even though it had been out a long time and now the Zumo 660 has stereo BT, but it hogs the profile.

There's a good thread in the equipment section about the Sena SMH10 with lots of help and I'm in there too pretty frequently to help. I know there's a guy in there that does the Sena SMH10 + Sena SR10 + Zumo 660 + smartphone so you could get info on that too if that ends up being a possibility.

Unfortunately, my er6's wired failed and sadly no real replacement. I would "prefer" an earplug and normal speaker setup if it works well. I'm going to head over to seek out the Sena threads. Many thanks for the wisdom.