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Old 12-13-2012, 11:14 AM   #136
explain
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After reading about SRTT i try to do all my braking the SRTT way - both brakes and not touching the clutch. Rear braking against engine prevents rear wheel lockup (unless overdone).
Some discussion regarding the technique (thanks Vulfy)
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:07 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
That's not good advise or a fact..Imagine how much of a shorter distance you could stop if you used both brakes. Tell ya what, you go try a quick stop using both brakes and then using your stoppie technique and get back to us.
OK, my turn to 'splain. I didn't say you'd get maximum braking power by transferring all of your weight to the front tire. (Did I? Maybe I did. Didn't mean to.) But if you've got the back wheel off the pavement, 100% of your stopping power is coming from the front wheel.

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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
Using that line of thinking you could also say that Tying a rope to your bike attached to a cinder block and tossing it off the bike at speed, the cinder block will give you 100% stopping power...
Or using your feet to stop with will give you 100% stopping power...but you'll go thru a lot of boots using that technique...
Or just letting gravity slow you to a stop...gravity supplied 100% stopping power...
Or letting engine braking bring you to a stop...the engine supplied 100% of stopping power
Perhaps valid extensions of my logic, but I think you're getting a bit silly, aren't you?


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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
Yeah, I know...fuck you, bwalsh.
Nah. bwalsh doesn't rhyme with 'you.'
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:08 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by hooliken View Post
That is like trying to teach a new offroad rider to get though a tough section by showing them videos of Knighter doing it in a race.

but the end results would eventually be the same. Both the newbie and Knighter will end up bitching about their bikes not being up to the task.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:11 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
little touchy are we. but sorry, i did a poor job of seperating my statement.
1. lots of bad advice (in general on this topic,not directed at you)
2.most bikes and stoppies responding to your post.
3.klr and op what i said.
No worries. Smily at the end was intended to indicate plantation of tongue in the cheek region.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:21 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Yeah, except it's not the entire story and because of it's over simplification ends up being basically wrong.
That dissertation was over simplified? Now I really feel stupid, 'cuz it didn't look simple at all to me.
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Old 12-13-2012, 12:25 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
lol, not looking for name dropping. just the organization.


As for flat tracking and front and rear brake discussion...... lol I love seeing them slam on the front brake right before the turn. Right?
Oh. WERA and MARRC.


And now your just being ridiculous.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:17 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
In an emergency stop, I still don't think it is possible to use your foot, while being pushed into the gas tank by the front brake, to correctly modulate the rear brake.
That really is no problem.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:20 PM   #143
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A ten page long thread on the quickest way to stop and not a single post on the effectiveness of 'laying her down'. Disappointing. This place has truely gone to hell.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:40 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Craneguy View Post
Are you kidding me? Forward momentum is what keeps bikes upright. If a "spinning engine" (what's spinning anyway? It's not a steam engine with a 3 ton flywheel) helps then I wouldn't fall over in parking lots.
No "momentum" is the bikes available energy while it's moving, interia is what keeps it going in it's direction of travel

The gyroscope of all the rotating parts of the engine and wheels are what provides the stability to the bike.

This is one of the reasons it's harder to turn a 1000cc sport bike versus a 125CC gp bike. It's not just the weight of the bike.

Quote:
Also we need to stop talking about stoppies. They only occur at the very end of the braking process. Up until then the rear brake is definitely contributing.
Except for when your braking really hard and it happens at the beginning of the stop. Did it occur to you that you don't really know as much as you think you did? Did you read the 2 research papers I quoted?

Quote:
I no longer consciously think about how much force to apply to each brake, but I absolutely use both most of the time. I'll use either of them for minor speed adjustments. For what it's worth I was taught to use them 60/40 in the dry and 50/50 in the wet.
How can you apply 40% of the braking pressure to a wheel that at best is only carrying 10% of the load.
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
No "momentum" is the bikes available energy while it's moving, interia is what keeps it going in it's direction of travel

***SNIP***


How can you apply 40% of the braking pressure to a wheel that at best is only carrying 10% of the load.

the 40% (and IMO it's 30% anyway, at least in the dry) is the total contribution from when you engage the breaks to when you stop. It's not a constant.

I'm trying really hard to keep things constructive...really really hard...
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:57 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
the 40% (and IMO it's 30% anyway, at least in the dry) is the total contribution from when you engage the breaks to when you stop. It's not a constant.

I'm trying really hard to keep things constructive...really really hard...
So far the only thing you've offered constructive is more myths...
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:10 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
In an emergency stop, I still don't think it is possible to use your foot, while being pushed into the gas tank by the front brake, to correctly modulate the rear brake. Your foot doesn't have as much fine control as a hand.
Since you used the word "think" then you haven't tried correct? Try it and get back to us. It's so easy a caveman can do it!
I've had to do emergency stops a couple times. I'm glad I was prepared so I didn't lock up the front or back. How was I prepared? By practicing threshold braking damn near every time I get on the bike. There is no way I could have stopped in time just using the front brake.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kerhonky View Post
But if you've got the back wheel off the pavement, 100% of your stopping power is coming from the front wheel.

At that point you can't say, "I have 100% of my stopping power" since you have given up "ALL available" stopping power and traction from the rear brake. They have brakes on trhe rear for a reason.


Nah. bwalsh doesn't rhyme with 'you.'






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Old 12-13-2012, 02:12 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post

In an emergency stop, I still don't think it is possible to use your foot, while being pushed into the gas tank by the front brake, to correctly modulate the rear brake. Your foot doesn't have as much fine control as a hand.
.
I call bullshit. You will stop faster by using both brakes. If you don't think so, you are not doing it right. Why are you getting pushed into the gas tank? Don't you squeeze it with your legs?

Do you ever ride two-up? If you do, I would hate to be one of your passengers, by not using your rear rear brake to settle the rear end, your passenger is likely slamming into you at every stop. You probably also would not stop soon enough in the event of an emergency stop by just using the front brake. More weight = more time and distance to stop. If you take away any percentage of braking (I'm not going to argue how much is front vs. rear) you will take that much longer to stop. If you run out of time and distance well, you may very well become a statistic. But hey, it is a free country, just use the front brake, just use the rear brake, use both, or do it Flinstone style.
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:44 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by EastSideSM View Post
I call bullshit. You will stop faster by using both brakes. If you don't think so, you are not doing it right. Why are you getting pushed into the gas tank? Don't you squeeze it with your legs?
I don't think you interpreted Para's post correctly

he believes that because he is incapable of controlling the rear brake pedal in an emergency stop that everyone is inept as him and its an impossible feat


I only saw his post as an admission of lack of skill, he is generally correct in his statement that hands have generally better motor skills than feet


and personally, I like drum brakes better than disk in rear, I feel its easier to control the ratio of front to rear (for me)

and the best way to learn fine brake control

Ride on Ice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQq01CrkLnI
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:34 PM   #150
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It just never ceases to amaze me how quickly these potentially helpful posts turn into "pissing matches" and then of course, all of the "techies" chime in with their grafts. Jesus Christ on a raft! Learn to brake! Practice it! Use both brakes! (that's why they have two) If you do those three things, you might live to ride another day!
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