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Old 12-14-2012, 06:01 AM   #166
Jim Moore
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Paramud, I'm with ya bro. The rear brake is for off-track excursions and stopping in gravel parking lots..
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:52 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaMud View Post
How do you know when the front brake is fully in use? Well seems to me it is when the rear tire is about to lift off? Right?
Just before the point of wheel lock up. If you do it correctly the rear won't want to come off the ground.

It's not really that hard to figure out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
What's a tyre anyway?
Same thing as a tar(said with a southern drawl)
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
Just before the point of wheel lock up. If you do it correctly the rear won't want to come off the ground.

It's not really that hard to figure out.
obviously for you it is.

http://www.elsevierscitech.com/pdfs/CEP_Corno.pdf
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:32 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Hold on there frog...

Well lets see. First paragraph...

Quote:
Abstract
The optimal braking strategy in a high-performance motorbike is discussed.
Didn't say anything about a stopping strategy.

Beginning of article...

Quote:
1. Introduction and motivation

In this work a simulation-based study of the braking
maneuver in high-performance (racing) motorcycles
is
presented.
The starting point of this work is the analysis of a typical
hard-braking maneuver performed by a professional
driver.
Again, no mention of coming to a complete stop.

That study is for hard braking into turns on a track, not a quick stop to avoiding a deer or cage pulling out in front of them. I'd say they would use both brakes if another rider crashed directly in front of them and they had to stop, and not continue around the track.


Some here are confusing panic stopping(threshold braking to avoid an obstacle) to normal everyday stopping(coming to a stop at a red light) or using the lame example of track techniques for a beginning rider.

Two totally different beasts.

Well, look what I found at the bottom of page 8...

Quote:
This section is concluded by observing that in the long
300-80 km/h braking maneuver, the difference of performance
is very large, about 300 ms. This difference is largely
due to the fact that the ‘‘traction’’ torque has been replaced
by a ‘‘braking’’ torque at the rear wheel Although the
braking torque at the rear wheel is rather small compared
to the front-wheel one, on a strong braking maneuver the
effect of the rear brake can be clearly appreciated.
Strong braking maneuver, like as in stopping...

You should maybe read what you try to use as a defense before you post.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:42 AM   #170
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To be honest I sometimes use only one or the other brakes to slow and sometimes stop, but not often. Thing is, I've learned to use, and I know how to use, both in an emergency stop. It's saved my ass before.
Brake pads are cheap. Learning to use BOTH brakes is good.
Teaching a beginning rider to not use the rear brake is bad...and just plain stupid IMO...unless your teaching a squid wannabe.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post

Some here are confusing panic stopping(threshold braking to avoid an obstacle) to normal everyday stopping(coming to a stop at a red light) or using the lame example of track techniques for a beginning rider.

Two totally different beasts.

That study is for hard braking into turns on a track, not a quick stop to avoiding a deer or cage pulling out in front of them. I'd say they would use both brakes if another rider crashed directly in front of them and they had to stop, and not continue around the track.
No they aren't the goal is to stop as quickly as possible.

Do you think the racer isn't going to slow the bike as quickly as possible? If he doesn't someone else will and suddenly he's not winning the race any more. If someone crashes right infront of them they're going to to continue stopping they way they already where because they don't have anything left in reserve. Luckily leather and sliders have less traction that tires so it's a non-issue unless the guy who crashes is behind you or inside of you.

Quote:
Well, look what I found at the bottom of page 8...
Unfortunately you failed to read everything. The benefit of the rear brake came _ABOVE_ 200km/h (124mph). Where the aerodynamic forces acting on the bike prevented the bike from over turning and instead allowed the bike to loose traction in the front wheel.

Below 124mph the overturning forces "aka stoppie" where less than tire traction so the bike enters a stoppie

So if you're panic stopping from above 200km/h you should use your rear brake.

crofrog screwed with this post 12-14-2012 at 12:05 PM
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #172
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Wow, I just read most of the posts and I am totally the opposite when it comes to breaking, lets put it this way...46k on my Tiger 1050 and I have gone through 1 set of breaks on the front and 6 on the rear.
Been riding 27 years, over a million miles and stopped counting speeding tickets after #14.
Got one 4 weeks ago 70 in a 45 so I'm not slow.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #173
bwalsh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
No they aren't the goal is to stop as quickly as possible.

Do you stop as quickly as possible when coming up to a stop light?

Do you think the racer isn't going to slow the bike as quickly as possible? If he doesn't someone else will and suddenly he's not winning the race any more. If someone crashes right infront of them they're going to to continue stopping they way they already where because they don't have anything left in reserve. Luckily leather and sliders have less traction that tires so it's a non-issue unless the guy who crashes is behind you or inside of you.



Unfortunately you failed to read everything. The benefit of the rear brake came _ABOVE_ 200km/h (124mph). Where the aerodynamic forces acting on the bike prevented the bike from over turning and instead allowed the bike to loose traction in the front wheel.

Below 124mph the overturning forces "aka stoppie" where less than tire traction so the bike enters a stoppie

So if you're panic stopping from above 200km/h you should use your rear brake.
I'm not going to read 651 pages of technical charts, graphs and crap...

Unfortunately you failed to read the part I quoted...

OK, next time I'm going 124mph or above, I'll be sure to use both brakes!
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
The front brake supplies 70% of the stopping power. The rear takes up the slack. Why only use 70%(probably less if your not using bot brakes) of your stopping power? Learn/teach to use both brakes...and use BOTH of them. Practice your "emergency" braking technique often, BEFORE you need to use it.

What if your girl friend has an actual emergency braking situation, left hand turner, deer runs across road, etc? With out ever using the rear brake or practicing any kind of emergency braking the scenario will most likely not turn out well.

If you are worried about her locking up the rear tire...practice,, practice, practice, makes perfect, or close to it.
I ride sport bikes.

I used to use my rear brake until about the fourth time I was emergency stopping and had locked the rear up. Then I stopped using it. More than 90% of my braking was front wheel only anyways.

I used to practice. A lot. I guess I'm just not very good because I could not prevent lock up in an emergency. That's okay, I can live with the fact I'm not as good as most of the riders posting here. But, my braking in emergencies was more controlled, harder and safer while ignoring my rear.

I taught my wife the same lessons I learned the hard way.

Now I have ABS. Other than very infrequent controlled braking, I still never use the rear. When I'm braking hard the rear tire is always near lift off with no weight and no braking potential in it.

Therefore, I agree with the OP.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:23 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
I'm not going to read 651 pages of technical charts, graphs and crap...

Unfortunately you failed to read the part I quoted...

OK, next time I'm going 124mph or above, I'll be sure to use both brakes!

If you aren't trying to stop as quickly as possible it doesn't matter how the fuck you brake. You could drag a foot on the ground if it stopped you in the distance available.

So it's pretty pointless to even discuss how to stop the bike at less than maximum stopping effort.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:43 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Do you think the racer isn't going to slow the bike as quickly as possible?
[...]
Below 124mph the overturning forces "aka stoppie" where less than tire traction so the bike enters a stoppie

So if you're panic stopping from above 200km/h you should use your rear brake.
And since alle panic stops done by beginners are on race bikes with racing slicks on race tracks under perfect weather conditions... oh, wait...
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:49 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
And since alle panic stops done by beginners are on race bikes with racing slicks on race tracks under perfect weather conditions... oh, wait...
Only sport bike tires are pretty damn close to race tires these days.

And of course, the chance of getting it wrong with both wheels in the rain is a decent amount higher...
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:52 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
Wow, I just read most of the posts and I am totally the opposite when it comes to breaking, lets put it this way...46k on my Tiger 1050 and I have gone through 1 set of breaks on the front and 6 on the rear.
Been riding 27 years, over a million miles and stopped counting speeding tickets after #14.
Got one 4 weeks ago 70 in a 45 so I'm not slow.
I am shocked you would admit that. It basically says you don't know much about high performance riding. You are an old lady out there with your million miles. Over cautious I would say, and ignorant because you have never ever pushed your braking at all! And let me add, the word is brakes, not breaks...
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:53 PM   #179
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i never use the rear brake on my r100gs as the front brake is the high speed brake. and the rear is the slow speed brake. I do ride fast and only use both brake for a emergency stop
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:10 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
Wow, I just read most of the posts and I am totally the opposite when it comes to breaking, lets put it this way...46k on my Tiger 1050 and I have gone through 1 set of breaks on the front and 6 on the rear.
HAHA

Quote:
Been riding 27 years, over a million miles and stopped counting speeding tickets after #14.
Got one 4 weeks ago 70 in a 45 so I'm not slow.
No it doesn't mean you're fast, just dumb enough to get caught.

If you think your fast go race and prove it.
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