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Old 12-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #241
crofrog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
Your response provoked me to fact check, something you don't do.

http://www.motogp.com/en/MotoGP+Basics/brakes

they use rear brakes..

And guys, rear wheel braking is not a question of opinion...it's physics....you've heard of that right?

There simply is no argument here and yet..people try. I guess most of you are bored?
They do, just not for stopping.

Since you bring up physics how much stopping can a wheel that's not on the ground provide. Did you even bother reading the thread?
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:58 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
They do, just not for stopping.

Since you bring up physics how much stopping can a wheel that's not on the ground provide. Did you even bother reading the thread?
I don't subscribe to the insane theory that states pulling a stoppie is the best way to brake.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:59 AM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I don't subscribe to the insane theory that states pulling a stoppie is the best way to brake.

Well then you aren't stopping the bike as quickly as possible because you're under utilizing the brakes. It's back to that whole physics thing.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:20 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog
Please define the difference between a "panic stop" on the street and every braking action on a race track at race pace?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog
And how is that different than any braking action on the track?
I don't keep up with MotoGP but I always thought they were trying to go as fast as possible, not try to come to a complete stop as fast as possible. Hmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog
So stopping on the track is "easier" because there are less variables to manage?

Well yeah, duh! Road surface is in much better shape, tires have better grip, no deer running out in front of you, no left turning cagers, you get the point, oh wait, you probably don't...
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:23 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Congratulations, you've managed to stop your bike in the space you had available. That doesn't prove you know the first thing about stopping a motorcycle as quickly as possible.
Going to track days doesn't prove you know how to ride, or stop either....Just sayin.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:26 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
Congratulations, you've managed to stop your bike in the space you had available. That doesn't prove you know the first thing about stopping a motorcycle as quickly as possible.

Also curiously to me how many "emergency stops" have you had to do?

I'm sure there are some million mile riders out there who use the rear brake only.
maybe I can't stop as quickly as possible on track conditions, I can stop in street conditions with variables and I never claimed to use one brake other other exclusively and I ain't afraid to use either or both or as icy conditions may require, modulate between front and rear

I find 70/30 a pretty accurate average with my V-strom depending on conditions, I don't consider myself a great rider but at the same time, I have the experience to ride in conditions that some so called "great" riders have zero experience in, and I ride in those conditions with confidence and relaxed
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:33 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
I don't keep up with MotoGP but I always thought they were trying to go as fast as possible, not try to come to a complete stop as fast as possible. Hmmm.
Which means going slow for the least amount of time possible which means slowing for the next corner as quickly as possible. So are you being intentionally obtuse, or do you just not get it?

Quote:
Well yeah, duh! Road surface is in much better shape, tires have better grip, no deer running out in front of you, no left turning cagers, you get the point, oh wait, you probably don't...
I completely agree.

So something that provides next to no benefit for the purposes of stopping in a completely controlled environment of a race track and has a great chance of causing problems and is generally avoided by arguably the best riders in the world when they need to stop quickly.

Is magically something that the average joe-schmo street rider on his sport bike can use with no downsides in the chaotic world of riding on the street.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
Going to track days doesn't prove you know how to ride, or stop either....Just sayin.
Fair point...

The track is the only real place we have to look at what the machines and riders are capable of. So I'll simply base my opinion on what works best based on the data I posted and what the best racers in the world too...

That being said, I've only had a 1 "emergency stop" on the street.

I've had allot of maximum braking practice and I've had people pass me and passed people under brakes. Which tells me allot more about how quickly I can stop a bike than just street riding ever would.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:51 PM   #249
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This is awesome. MSF vs Track Day Enthusiast vs Old Codger vs European Know-It-All.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:02 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
... so relevance to the issue regarding a novice on the street would be ...?
Buy a bike with ABS - which makes the consequences of screwing up here a lot less exciting ?.

Oh, some of the motorcycling gods who post here MIGHT be able to outbrake a bike with ABS, but a n00b - unlikely and the difference is a life or death one.

I'd also point out to the 'gods', if you can actually threshold brake already then the ABS will never trigger so it's never going to degrade your braking performance is it ?

Pete
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:29 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterW View Post
Buy a bike with ABS
I am less than inspired by the performance of ABS on ice, probably cause the vehicles Ive driven had primitive ABS compared to what is available today.

just a few days ago, my Ranger rolled out into the road from my driveway before stopping while my old chevy van skidded to a stop short of going into the road
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:37 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I'm surprised at how many of you are unable think clearly in an emergency, if you can't handle rear wheel braking in an emergency situation then you're an addtional hazard on the road. And I'm sorry, but that is a fact.
I've so far never been in an emergency and I dedicate a significant portion of study to learning to avoid getting into a situation where I need to do an emergency stop. I couldn't say one way or the other how I will handle it honestly

Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
I don't subscribe to the insane theory that states pulling a stoppie is the best way to brake.
Well it is the fastest, may not be the best....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterW View Post
Buy a bike with ABS - which makes the consequences of screwing up here a lot less exciting ?.

Oh, some of the motorcycling gods who post here MIGHT be able to outbrake a bike with ABS, but a n00b - unlikely and the difference is a life or death one.

I'd also point out to the 'gods', if you can actually threshold brake already then the ABS will never trigger so it's never going to degrade your braking performance is it ?

Pete
I do think this is the best solution. I also agree with your note of humor hehe. No matter how good I get at emergency stops, the conditions would have to be perfect for me to outstop a good ABS, try as I might....
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:43 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crofrog View Post
So something that provides next to no benefit for the purposes of stopping in a completely controlled environment of a race track and has a great chance of causing problems and is generally avoided by arguably the best riders in the world when they need to stop quickly.

Is magically something that the average joe-schmo street rider on his sport bike can use with no downsides in the chaotic world of riding on the street.
F**k me! I think he might finally be getting it.

Instead of comparing street riding by a novice to track racing, why not look at what the most experienced and best trained street riders are doing - Wouldn't that make more sense? Go and talk to a police motorcycle mechanic and ask him if he sees any wear in their rear brakes. Talk to a police motorcyclist and suggest that he should not be using his rear brake because you don't do it when you play on the track - See what he has to say about that. Then try to out ride him on the street (with or without a rear brake). If you survive, you'll have your metaphorical ass handed to you.

Use both brakes! It's what every real expert in street riding teaches, every street riding curriculum includes and every experienced street rider practices
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:46 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
F**k me! I think he might finally be getting it.

Instead of comparing street riding by a novice to track racing, why not look at what the most experienced and best trained street riders are doing - Wouldn't that make more sense? Go and talk to a police motorcycle mechanic and ask him if he sees any wear in their rear brakes. Talk to a police motorcyclist and suggest that he should not be using his rear brake because you don't do it when you play on the track - See what he has to say about that. Then try to out ride him on the street (with or without a rear brake). If you survive, you'll have your metaphorical ass handed to you.

Use both brakes! It's what every real expert in street riding teaches, every street riding curriculum includes and every experienced street rider practices
Police don't ride sport bikes with short wheelbases though, so while you would use both brakes on a cruiser style, and in fact they can stop faster than most sport bikes, it's a completely different thing on a sport bike.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:55 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
Police don't ride sport bikes with short wheelbases though, so while you would use both brakes on a cruiser style, and in fact they can stop faster than most sport bikes, it's a completely different thing on a sport bike.
Since when was this only about sport bikes?

...and since when could you brake hard enough to achieve close to 100% weight transfer to the front wheel on any bike when braking over manhole covers, painted stripes, in the wet, etc.? (i.e. real-world street riding conditions)
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