ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional forums > New Zealand
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-08-2013, 01:37 AM   #1
motu OP
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,355
TLR200 make over.

I've had the TLR200 since about 2002 when I did a rebuild of it, I kept it stock apart from some 20mm longer rear shocks I made up. I struggled with it a bit, but also really enjoy it, seeing it's faults as a challenge. Twinshock Trials was popular here back then, the rest of the world not so - the US forums kept telling me the TLR200 was just a trail bike, not suitable for trials...that's because they got the toned down model they call the Reflex. Twinshock Trials has fallen away somewhat here, and they now do Aircooled to get numbers up, but is big overseas now - the Yanks turning their Reflex's into real TLR200's, and the Pom's turning them into bikes that are better than the Euro twinshocks.

So, first thing is the footpegs (actually they were the last thing I did.) My previous bike was a KT250, and it felt like the footpegs were below the centre of gravity, or pivot point anyway, on the TLR200 the pegs are high, they feel above the pivot point. Very responsive to any input on the pegs, and I was spearing off in all directions for a while, but I've grown to like the high pegs....like riding a racehorse, or a sportsbike compared to a cruiser.

They need to go down and back 25mm, more weight to the rear, and lighten the front. I made complete new mounts, and much heavier duty than stock....just because I couldn't be bothered pulling a full length out of the rack just to slice off a couple of small pieces, so found some thicker stuff in the scrap outside.



Stuck on the frame, I was going to put some braces up the inside seeing as they are only butt welds, but I reckon they will be strong enough.





They are more on the axle centreline. Next I'll make fatter pegs.



The biggest issue for was the engine, it's gutless, and a 4 stroke. I can't fix the 4 stroke, but more power is possible. First the intake, I need another carb, but we can still do things. Open up the airbox, just get rid of the restrictor for a start. It does act as a water dam, so I might have to make another dam if it swallows water.



The airbox isn't the problem, the flame trap is, it just can't suck air through this.



So I need a new filter. As some know, I don't sell anything on TradeMe, it all stays in my shed. Twenty years ago I was running non stock carbs on my XS1 and using K&N filters - I don't have the XS1 anymore, but the filters are still here. I had to trim the intake spigot, and made a new one out of an oil bottle cap.



It fits perfectly in the stock box with the original hold in thing.



Now the exhaust, the plan was always to make a new one - a larger header pipe and better muffler, but one day....



All the shit had to go....



I also pulled this disgusting thing out of the tailpipe.



All stitched up no one will even know.



It's still pretty restrictive, once I get the bits I'll make something better.



Next is the cam timing. They say it needs to be advanced 6 degrees....I would think that was 12 crankshaft degrees, but everyone seems to be advancing the camshaft 6 degrees, that's only 3 on the crank. That's half a tooth, so I've redrilled for half a tooth, I might go to one tooth later one.



So, all finished today, so I took it up to my daughter's place, they have 2.5 acres and a messy building site, dirt mounds everywhere, a swamp and steep sheep rutted hillside. I prefer to do only one thing at a time, this is just too much at once to know what is what. It's much easier to loft the wheel, all by itself now, even in 2nd gear. It's geared too tall stock, at 13 teeth, I had to import the smallest I could get at the time, an 11 tooth when I wanted a 9, and then went up to 50 at the rear. now I can get a 9, so will go for that. It will now pull up the sheep stepped hill in 2nd, no way would it do that before, and even when I did push it to a stall, doing that bit again in 1st I still didn't get up. All looking good until I dumped it upside down, and then got a bad knock in the engine. Got it home, pulled the cam sprocket cover....but nothing wrong and no noise now.

Next sunday is an aircooled trial....I'll give it a go on my new bike.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 02:06 AM   #2
Mark_S
Fair Weather Faggot
 
Mark_S's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Kapiti NZ
Oddometer: 1,639
good stuff

will you take your camera with you to the upcoming trial?
__________________
These are the best days
Mark_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 02:49 AM   #3
bart-nz
Studly Adventurer
 
bart-nz's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 662
That's cool. Love the way you fix shit.
__________________
Bart's adventure: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541628

bart-nz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2013, 11:23 PM   #4
Night Falcon
Adventure NZL
 
Night Falcon's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Nu Va Ze Lon
Oddometer: 1,600
Nice work - love build threads.
__________________
My KTM 390 Adventure - we live in hope!
My KTM 690 - RIP
My Rev3 Trials Adventures
Night Falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2013, 01:47 AM   #5
motu OP
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,355
I'm a bit concerned about this noise, it was only for a little while, but it sounded like something big floating around inside the engine. These engines (XR200) used to have a problem of losing teeth off the kickstart idler gear...but the kickstarter works ok, gears all work, engine runs fine with no noises. I think I'll drain the oil and see if anything comes out. I don't want to stuck down in some gully when this thing lets go.

This bike has a hell of a life these last 10 years or more - looped, rolled and upside down, never a problem. A few years ago at a practice trial my daughter was riding it, and these bikes have an issue. Like Rossi's Ducati, power come on too hard off idle, not controllable like a 2 stroke, so it's not easy to turn on throttle. If the clutch was more controllable I could clutch a turn, but it's not, so a tight turn is much harder on this bike than others. She was doing a turn near a river bank, applied throttle, and it took off where it was pointed - over the bank. She just stepped off and landed on her feet 1 1/2 metres in the stream, the bike was completely upside down on it's handlebars, a couple of kicks and we are back on it. A little later my son was riding it, slipped at low speed on some grass on a bank, it fell over and bent a shock rod....all the big prangs and a little lay down does the most damage. I can't see putting it on it's side doing any damage.

Here is my daughter on it, the stream it ended upside down in behind. Don't us trials riders get to ride on some pristine properties ?



The difficulties of twinshocks - the moderns were leaping this muddy stream and landing on the bank, twinshocks have to go through and haul themselves out the otherside. The Honda has an advantage here, a 4 stroke has traction, and my one dab gets me out of this mess....and into the rest of the section, this was just the starting gate.

motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2013, 03:00 AM   #6
motu OP
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,355
So I took it to a trial today to try it all out. They were sticking to the official line and required the comp license, and of course mine has expired. I didn't want to pay the entry fee and day license, and then have my engine noise show itself with catastrophic results, so decided to have a play day...they are ok with that sort of stuff. It was in a quarry, so rocks and mud - I'm happy with mud, but rocks are not my favourite...wet rocks in a stream I'm happy with, rock formations not so.

Rocks are 1st gear stuff, so not a chance to try out my power improvements, although there was a slushy muddy stream I could use 2nd. It's a while since I've ridden, and I turned 60 last week...is this really a sport I want to perceiver with, or should I just pack it in? I was really out of shape for awhile, but then got it back together, and cleaned quite a few sections. Not competing I could decide some sections were not for me, and do others several times to experiment.

I can't say this is a huge transformation and a completely new bike to ride...which is disappointing after everyone saying what a difference this or that made, I did a shit load of things, and it's almost the same bike ! Marginally more stable in the rocks, more induction and exhaust noise, but more power and more response? Again, marginal. I'll get a 9 tooth sprocket now, and I know that will make a huge difference, and bring the power improvements to light. I need a gear between the 1st and 2nd I have now, that will give a 1st for tight stuff, and a 3rd for hills.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 01:28 AM   #7
Mark_S
Fair Weather Faggot
 
Mark_S's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Kapiti NZ
Oddometer: 1,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
So I took it to a trial today to try it all out. They were sticking to the official line and required the comp license, and of course mine has expired. I didn't want to pay the entry fee and day license, and then have my engine noise show itself with catastrophic results, so decided to have a play day...they are ok with that sort of stuff. It was in a quarry, so rocks and mud - I'm happy with mud, but rocks are not my favourite...wet rocks in a stream I'm happy with, rock formations not so.

Rocks are 1st gear stuff, so not a chance to try out my power improvements, although there was a slushy muddy stream I could use 2nd. It's a while since I've ridden, and I turned 60 last week...is this really a sport I want to perceiver with, or should I just pack it in? I was really out of shape for awhile, but then got it back together, and cleaned quite a few sections. Not competing I could decide some sections were not for me, and do others several times to experiment.

I can't say this is a huge transformation and a completely new bike to ride...which is disappointing after everyone saying what a difference this or that made, I did a shit load of things, and it's almost the same bike ! Marginally more stable in the rocks, more induction and exhaust noise, but more power and more response? Again, marginal. I'll get a 9 tooth sprocket now, and I know that will make a huge difference, and bring the power improvements to light. I need a gear between the 1st and 2nd I have now, that will give a 1st for tight stuff, and a 3rd for hills.
so are you a bit stiff and sore today?

don't give up on it - trials is just the sport for us less than youthfull riders
and it helps keep you sharp for all your gravel road running.
__________________
These are the best days
Mark_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2013, 03:52 AM   #8
motu OP
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,355
No, no sore muscles...that usually comes on the 2nd day. But it's the difference between just playing around and actually competing in a trial. When you have to do a section someone else has laid out you can't take the easy way out, you do stuff you wouldn't do by yourself...and then you have to improve on each attempt. I've always been in the lowest grades for those who don't learn by their mistakes. When younger I always worked on riding skills I wasn't very good at, I'll never get any skills with trials riding, that's why I do it,so I guess I'll just keep on at it.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 02:42 AM   #9
motu OP
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,355
I got my 9 tooth sprocket, and fitted the stock 44 rear, and made a new chain tensioner block...and took it to a trial today. This was a venue I'm pretty familiar with, and I DNF'd. 10 years ago I would've slogged it out and done the whole thing, but after 2 rounds of 4 I just said to hell with it. I got some cleans, a couple of 1 dabs and a few 3's, and several 5's....so after 4 rounds it still would've been an OK score.

A twinshock trial where more than half the bikes are moderns, and the Clubman line is really made for novice modern riders....and that's bloody hard for an 87kg twinshock. The problems were logs, some at an angle that even the experts on moderns had trouble with. Lowering footpegs, gearing changes and more power make no difference getting over an angled slippery log - getting the front over is no problem, but the rear has to be manhandled over, the bike straightens up and spears off in the wrong direction.

I've had this bike for years, had it in tougher places than this, and you'd think I'd notice any minor alteration - but after all this work I'm still riding the same bike! Everyone raves about how much difference the footpeg change makes, or how much power the camshaft advance gives, how better the gearing is. I must be insensitive, but it just seems to be the same bike. I'm still having to use first gear, it still gets up the steep climbs, still stalls in the same places - I don't notice any improvement from any of these changes. If I moved the footpegs on my R65 25mm it'd be a hell of a difference, so would 2 teeth on the pinion - and on a bike where you'd think these things were vitally important...it appears not. I'm getting confused.

On the way home I went to see that Dodgyiti, and he said take it around the farm. I went down some track where he had the quad bike stuck for 4 days, and had to push the trials bike half way up the hill, real boggy and slippery. I've done some sweating today!

My rear tyre is over 10 years old - still sharp, soft and flexes....but still, it's an old tyre, and the front is even older.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2013, 11:06 PM   #10
Mark_S
Fair Weather Faggot
 
Mark_S's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Kapiti NZ
Oddometer: 1,639
so have you ridden it again since your last fairly disappointed sounding post?
__________________
These are the best days
Mark_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2013, 01:56 AM   #11
motu OP
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,355
No, it's where I left it in the shed. I don't really want to the the club membership/competition license thing again, sending the license all the way to Huntly for renewal, and a day license is too expensive these days too. Trials riders supporting road racing MX and enduro and getting nothing for their money, moan moan, winge winge. We are thinking of doing our own thing - finding some venues, setting out a few sections, riding them, swapping bikes, telling other people how to ride properly, pulling up the pegs, loading up the bikes and having a few beers and muffins. gotta be more fun than the official route.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 09:39 PM   #12
trustme
Studly Adventurer
 
trustme's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: Auckland , New Zealand
Oddometer: 912
I'm keen , gotta get the TY out more
trustme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:42 PM   #13
Oscar
Elitist Bastid
 
Oscar's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Location: Karakariki, New Zealand
Oddometer: 15,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
No, it's where I left it in the shed. I don't really want to the the club membership/competition license thing again, sending the license all the way to Huntly for renewal, and a day license is too expensive these days too. Trials riders supporting road racing MX and enduro and getting nothing for their money, moan moan, winge winge. We are thinking of doing our own thing - finding some venues, setting out a few sections, riding them, swapping bikes, telling other people how to ride properly, pulling up the pegs, loading up the bikes and having a few beers and muffins. gotta be more fun than the official route.
I'll be up for that - about time the GG got an airing...
__________________

“Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.”

Clive James
Oscar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 08:37 PM   #14
Night Falcon
Adventure NZL
 
Night Falcon's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Nu Va Ze Lon
Oddometer: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by motu View Post
... We are thinking of doing our own thing - finding some venues, setting out a few sections, riding them, swapping bikes, telling other people how to ride properly, pulling up the pegs, loading up the bikes and having a few beers and muffins. gotta be more fun than the official route.
that' sounds like my cup of tea....I'll be the one your tell how to ride properly . Went out last weekend in some steep rutty farm land and had a ball....every time I ride I know there must be an easier way.... technique, technique, technique!
__________________
My KTM 390 Adventure - we live in hope!
My KTM 690 - RIP
My Rev3 Trials Adventures
Night Falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2013, 02:48 AM   #15
motu OP
Loose Pre Unit
 
motu's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 4,355
I don't do technique anymore, I'm into wing it these days. More important than technique is commitment - you have to hit the scary stuff with your only thought being you are going to do it, getting to the end pegs is your only goal.
motu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014