AvGas, what say you.

rotorhead511 · 12-14-2012, 03:41 PM

Anyone using it. There is a local airport that has it but not sure if low lead is ok. AvGas is 100LL which is 100 octane, good for the bike, LL is the low lead not sure if its good for the bike.

laser17 · 12-14-2012, 03:49 PM

Its fine.

EZman671 · 12-14-2012, 03:55 PM

Ran a Lycoming aircraft engine many years on 100LL.

Do not let it fool you LL is not very low lead. Spent many hours scraping/picking lead deposits out of the spark plugs.

Not sure where to verify this but I think I read at one time it was close to one ounce of lead per gallon.

Many also think that high octane gas has more power. Octane is more for the control of burn rate to prevent detonation.

Air cooled engines typically have many hot spots within the cylinder valve area that can easily trigger detonation. So in that sense the 100 octane is good. What lotza lead will do to your engine is the question but I bet it is not anything good.

On top of that 100LL is not cheap.

Look around for a marine type place they often have non-alcohol gas available.

neilking · 12-14-2012, 05:07 PM

Actually lead is a good lubricant. The actual compound is called tetra-ethyl-lead, it's not lead in pure form.

kanur · 12-14-2012, 05:45 PM

I use it in everything 2 stoke I have, It will store for a very long time and it does not damage vintage fiberglass tanks. If I put corn-o-hol in my Sammy Miller tank'ed TY's the carb will be clogged with resin so bad the slide will be sticky to touch in a week. I have not drained the tanks in the 2 years since I started using the Av-Gas

2whlrcr · 12-14-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZman671

Ran a Lycoming aircraft engine many years on 100LL.

Do not let it fool you LL is not very low lead. Spent many hours scraping/picking lead deposits out of the spark plugs.

Not sure where to verify this but I think I read at one time it was close to one ounce of lead per gallon.

Many also think that high octane gas has more power. Octane is more for the control of burn rate to prevent detonation.

Air cooled engines typically have many hot spots within the cylinder valve area that can easily trigger detonation. So in that sense the 100 octane is good. What lotza lead will do to your engine is the question but I bet it is not anything good.

On top of that 100LL is not cheap.

Look around for a marine type place they often have non-alcohol gas available.

I agree with this. I had a 115hp Lycoming with a STC to run automotive gas. To meet the engine's lead requirement, Lycoming recommended using only one tankful of avgas per 100 hours of run time.

hexagonstiffnuts · 12-14-2012, 06:38 PM

I've been working on planes for about 25 years and riding for at least 30 so I've used my share of 100LL. I will only use it straight if storing a bike for the winter. AV-gas doesn't go bad like car gas, it can't, some of those little prop jobs sit for months at a time between flights and if your carb starts acting up on take off

. You will get lead deposits in the exhaust and combustion chamber if used a lot and I've found my gas mileage suffers on my street bikes. It sure smells nice though, unlike that crap from the local Citgo.

Tosh Togo · 12-14-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZman671

Ran a Lycoming aircraft engine many years on 100LL.

Do not let it fool you LL is not very low lead. Spent many hours scraping/picking lead deposits out of the spark plugs.

Not sure where to verify this but I think I read at one time it was close to one ounce of lead per gallon.

Many also think that high octane gas has more power. Octane is more for the control of burn rate to prevent detonation.

Air cooled engines typically have many hot spots within the cylinder valve area that can easily trigger detonation. So in that sense the 100 octane is good. What lotza lead will do to your engine is the question but I bet it is not anything good.

On top of that 100LL is not cheap.

Look around for a marine type place they often have non-alcohol gas available.

What he said... it's only Low Lead when compared to the amount of TEL that was in avgas back in the good old days.

Another good source for reliable stable fuel in whatever octane you want would be any of the places that sell race fuel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilking

Actually lead is a good lubricant. The actual compound is called tetra-ethyl-lead, it's not lead in pure form.

While there's some truth to that in terms of saving certain kinds of poppet-valve seat materials, the OP's bike is a two stroke.

TXNMGUY · 12-14-2012, 09:27 PM

Been using AVgas 100LL from my local airport. Have not had one problem with it.

Twin-shocker · 12-16-2012, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorhead511

Anyone using it. There is a local airport that has it but not sure if low lead is ok. AvGas is 100LL which is 100 octane, good for the bike, LL is the low lead not sure if its good for the bike.

Trials bikes are relatively low revving and dont run high compression. As such there is no real need to run higher octane fuel, and all thats really required is proper jetting, and adjusting pilot mixture to suit conditions on the day bike is being ridden.

broncobowsher · 12-16-2012, 07:12 AM

I suspect my local source of race gas may dry up. If rumors of Firbird closing do happen then I expect the race gas at the pump across the highway will go as well. They have the pump for the needs of the racers across the street.

If/when that happens I plan to hit the local airport for 100LL. I run AV gas in my 50 year old boat as well. The AV gas is great storage fuel. I have had it sit without any stabalizer for years. Half a tank will evaporate, but what was left was still good. No stink, not gummed or anything bad. Can't say that for pump gas. The only thing is getting AV gas is more or a pain then pulling up to the pump. I have to go through the Cafe enterence follow the special path then turn and head to the self pay pump. Not bad when only getting 5 gallons at a time, royal pain when you need 20 gallons for the boat.

Tosh Togo · 12-16-2012, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

Trials bikes are relatively low revving and dont run high compression. As such there is no real need to run higher octane fuel, and all thats really required is proper jetting, and adjusting pilot mixture to suit conditions on the day bike is being ridden.

FYI- low rpm and high loads, (as in trials riding) are a big part of what sets the stage for detonation. At high rpm there isn't enough time for detonation to happen.

CR alone is no indication of what may happen for a given fuel.... there are some bike engines with 8:1 that detonate on anything less than really good fuel, and I've got one in my garage with ~13:1 that is happy on 87 pump gas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by broncobowsher

I suspect my local source of race gas may dry up. If rumors of Firbird closing do happen then I expect the race gas at the pump across the highway will go as well. They have the pump for the needs of the racers across the street.

If/when that happens I plan to hit the local airport for 100LL. I run AV gas in my 50 year old boat as well. The AV gas is great storage fuel. I have had it sit without any stabalizer for years. Half a tank will evaporate, but what was left was still good. No stink, not gummed or anything bad. Can't say that for pump gas. The only thing is getting AV gas is more or a pain then pulling up to the pump. I have to go through the Cafe enterence follow the special path then turn and head to the self pay pump. Not bad when only getting 5 gallons at a time, royal pain when you need 20 gallons for the boat.

You should contact these guys to see what they can do... there's a good chance that there's a fuel vendor close enough to you.

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/

Twin-shocker · 12-16-2012, 09:59 AM

The main reason a well maintained trials motor might knock when using Efuel, is due to the jetting in a specific area of the rev range being incorrect. Add to this the need to adjust pilot mixture to suit atmospheric conditions on the day the bike is being used, and the stage is set for various old wives tales about the need to use high octane fuels.

Tosh Togo · 12-16-2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

The main reason a well maintained trials motor might knock when using Efuel, is due to the jetting in a specific area of the rev range being incorrect. Add to this the need to adjust pilot mixture to suit atmospheric conditions on the day the bike is being used, and the stage is set for various old wives tales about the need to use high octane fuels.

Yuppers... a stoichiometric A/F ratio is a great way to set the stage for detonation. Add a lot of throttle at low revs, and...

By the time you hear it, it's usually too late.

Twin-shocker · 12-16-2012, 10:34 AM

I wonder how many trials motors you have encountered which have blown up due to detonation? Weird how people seem to think low heat/compression motors, need the type of fuel which you would want to run in a race motor with 13:1 compression! Poor maintenance and preparation though will greatly increase the chances of knocking, and I would guess there are plenty of bikes 2-3 years old or more, which have never had new rings or exhaust systems properly serviced.

12-14-2012, 03:41 PM	#1
rotorhead511 ^OP Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2011 Location: Milton, Fl Oddometer: 250	AvGas, what say you. Anyone using it. There is a local airport that has it but not sure if low lead is ok. AvGas is 100LL which is 100 octane, good for the bike, LL is the low lead not sure if its good for the bike. __________________ '08 450 EXC-R '04 GasGas TXT Pro 280

12-14-2012, 05:07 PM	#4
neilking Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Mar 2008 Location: Austin, TX Oddometer: 371	Actually lead is a good lubricant. The actual compound is called tetra-ethyl-lead, it's not lead in pure form. __________________ 74 TY 80 and 250 86 TY350 86 TLR200 95 Sportster 1200 00 Monty 315R 11 Beta 250

12-14-2012, 05:45 PM	#5
kanur Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2007 Location: Cape Girardeau, MO Oddometer: 492	I use it in everything 2 stoke I have, It will store for a very long time and it does not damage vintage fiberglass tanks. If I put corn-o-hol in my Sammy Miller tank'ed TY's the carb will be clogged with resin so bad the slide will be sticky to touch in a week. I have not drained the tanks in the 2 years since I started using the Av-Gas __________________ I heard the North Star saying, kid you're so lost even I can't bring you home. RIP Jason Molina

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12-14-2012, 03:49 PM	#2
laser17 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Mar 2008 Location: Boston,Massachusetts Oddometer: 241	Its fine.

12-14-2012, 03:55 PM	#3
EZman671 Adventurer Joined: Jul 2011 Oddometer: 93	Ran a Lycoming aircraft engine many years on 100LL. Do not let it fool you LL is not very low lead. Spent many hours scraping/picking lead deposits out of the spark plugs. Not sure where to verify this but I think I read at one time it was close to one ounce of lead per gallon. Many also think that high octane gas has more power. Octane is more for the control of burn rate to prevent detonation. Air cooled engines typically have many hot spots within the cylinder valve area that can easily trigger detonation. So in that sense the 100 octane is good. What lotza lead will do to your engine is the question but I bet it is not anything good. On top of that 100LL is not cheap. Look around for a marine type place they often have non-alcohol gas available.

12-14-2012, 06:38 PM	#7
hexagonstiffnuts n00b Joined: Feb 2012 Oddometer: 2	I've been working on planes for about 25 years and riding for at least 30 so I've used my share of 100LL. I will only use it straight if storing a bike for the winter. AV-gas doesn't go bad like car gas, it can't, some of those little prop jobs sit for months at a time between flights and if your carb starts acting up on take off . You will get lead deposits in the exhaust and combustion chamber if used a lot and I've found my gas mileage suffers on my street bikes. It sure smells nice though, unlike that crap from the local Citgo.

12-14-2012, 09:27 PM	#9
TXNMGUY dirt dobber Joined: Sep 2010 Location: North Tx. Oddometer: 78	Been using AVgas 100LL from my local airport. Have not had one problem with it.

12-16-2012, 07:12 AM	#11
broncobowsher Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2010 Oddometer: 447	I suspect my local source of race gas may dry up. If rumors of Firbird closing do happen then I expect the race gas at the pump across the highway will go as well. They have the pump for the needs of the racers across the street. If/when that happens I plan to hit the local airport for 100LL. I run AV gas in my 50 year old boat as well. The AV gas is great storage fuel. I have had it sit without any stabalizer for years. Half a tank will evaporate, but what was left was still good. No stink, not gummed or anything bad. Can't say that for pump gas. The only thing is getting AV gas is more or a pain then pulling up to the pump. I have to go through the Cafe enterence follow the special path then turn and head to the self pay pump. Not bad when only getting 5 gallons at a time, royal pain when you need 20 gallons for the boat.

12-16-2012, 09:59 AM	#13
Twin-shocker Studly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2012 Oddometer: 993	The main reason a well maintained trials motor might knock when using Efuel, is due to the jetting in a specific area of the rev range being incorrect. Add to this the need to adjust pilot mixture to suit atmospheric conditions on the day the bike is being used, and the stage is set for various old wives tales about the need to use high octane fuels.

12-16-2012, 10:34 AM	#15
Twin-shocker Studly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2012 Oddometer: 993	I wonder how many trials motors you have encountered which have blown up due to detonation? Weird how people seem to think low heat/compression motors, need the type of fuel which you would want to run in a race motor with 13:1 compression! Poor maintenance and preparation though will greatly increase the chances of knocking, and I would guess there are plenty of bikes 2-3 years old or more, which have never had new rings or exhaust systems properly serviced.