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Old 11-17-2013, 09:52 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by windmills View Post
...One quibble:

I dont buy this one though. I would have Ben Youngs as my starting scrum half...
He and his brother were catastrophes! There are few players I dislike more that Danny Care and I'd pick him above YBY every day of the week and twice on Saturdays against the ABs.

I agree with your comments about Lancaster although the malevolent influence of Farrell senior worries me deeply. How else can Lancaster select an out of form Ashton, Tomkins, Barritt and have Goode on the bench? There's a reason that Saracens are this season scoring try bonuses; Farrell senior isn't there any more. There's no way that potentially great players like Freddie Burns as just one example, will get anywhere near the full England side and that's because that boring c%$& Farrell senior will drill the inspiration out of him.

As for the question, yes, "What would have happened if Dylan Hartley had stayed on the pitch?"
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Old 11-17-2013, 03:32 PM   #197
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There HAS to be a rule that if you concede 3 penalties in your own 22 it's a penalty try - HOW the hell did NZ keep getting away with illegally preventing England from scoring
It's only a penalty try if the ref is convinced that, but for the infringement a try would have been scored.

The try that England did score was quite dodgy. The ball is clearly touched by an off side England player before Launchbury grabs it.
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Old 11-17-2013, 03:35 PM   #198
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As for the question, yes, "What would have happened if Dylan Hartley had stayed on the pitch?"
Ahh, the lad from Rotorua Boys High School
He had a bruised lung, so the answer to your question is - not much.
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Old 11-17-2013, 03:40 PM   #199
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I also noted that the "Respect the Kicker" thing only lasted half a game.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:28 PM   #200
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It's only a penalty try if the ref is convinced that, but for the infringement a try would have been scored.

The try that England did score was quite dodgy. The ball is clearly touched by an off side England player before Launchbury grabs it.
I know what the current rule is, I'm advocating changing it. How many times did NZ illegally stop England just before England scored their try ? It's getting ridiculous.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:36 PM   #201
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I know what the current rule is, I'm advocating changing it. How many times did NZ illegally stop England just before England scored their try ? It's getting ridiculous.
If all the penalties were for the same thing, or the Ref thought they were cynical or professional he could have peeled out a yellow card. Why did he not?
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:05 PM   #202
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I also noted that the "Respect the Kicker" thing only lasted half a game.
That was not acceptable. Too many idiots getting in to Twickenham these days.
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Old 11-17-2013, 07:20 PM   #203
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That was not acceptable. Too many idiots getting in to Twickenham these days.
There was a bit of a fuss down here about people booing Quade Cooper and I heard this exchange between a ARU Official and a Sky TV guy:

ARU Official: "...and the crowd booing Cooper is getting old."
SKY TV Guy: "Yeah, but NZ crowds hate him for his cheap shots on Richie.."
ARU Official: "I was talking about Australian Crowds.."
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:21 AM   #204
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If all the penalties were for the same thing, or the Ref thought they were cynical or professional he could have peeled out a yellow card. Why did he not?
Oh please

They knew exactly what they were doing.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:30 AM   #205
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My buddy was at the game, I watched it yesterday with his brother at my house via YouTube, wow what a game. England is looking very good. ABs pretty much never disappoint. Can't wait to get back to Twickenham for some Rugby. See you in 2015:-)
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:24 PM   #206
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Oh please

They knew exactly what they were doing.
My comment was directed at the Ref. In the sequence you mentioned, he did not warn anyone, much less pull out a yellow card.

There is no doubt that the AB's new exactly what they were doing (the same as England knew what they were doing when they slowed down the ball at the breakdown by dubious methods). Both teams are smart enough to go to the letter of the law but not beyond.

And speaking of dubious tactics, is it true that England have Greg Louganis as a backs coach?
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:34 PM   #207
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My comment was directed at the Ref. In the sequence you mentioned, he did not warn anyone, much less pull out a yellow card.

There is no doubt that the AB's new exactly what they were doing (the same as England knew what they were doing when they slowed down the ball at the breakdown by dubious methods). Both teams are smart enough to go to the letter of the law but not beyond.

And speaking of dubious tactics, is it true that England have Greg Louganis as a backs coach?
My point was that, no matter WHO was responsible for causing the penalty (individually, non of which merited a yellow) but that fact that the TEAM conceded multiple penalties that should trigger a penalty try. I don't dispute that both teams, by and large, played to the letter of the law but that the law itself is flawed.
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Old 11-18-2013, 01:17 PM   #208
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My point was that, no matter WHO was responsible for causing the penalty (individually, non of which merited a yellow) but that fact that the TEAM conceded multiple penalties that should trigger a penalty try. I don't dispute that both teams, by and large, played to the letter of the law but that the law itself is flawed.
And I accept that they did concede multiple (three, I think) penalties.
However, if I recall correctly, two were scrum infringements and none were in a position where a try was inevitable. If you started awarding penalty tries on the basis of multiple different infringements, where those infringements are 5m+ from the line and did not come under the current definitions for a penalty try (cynical/professional and preventing a certain try), the game would become a wee bit silly.

Or do you just want this rule for Twickers?
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:12 PM   #209
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And I accept that they did concede multiple (three, I think) penalties.
However, if I recall correctly, two were scrum infringements and none were in a position where a try was inevitable. If you started awarding penalty tries on the basis of multiple different infringements, where those infringements are 5m+ from the line and did not come under the current definitions for a penalty try (cynical/professional and preventing a certain try), the game would become a wee bit silly.

Or do you just want this rule for Twickers?
But where does it end ? Penalty after penalty after penalty and all the while the defending team (NZ in this case - England and others have done the same) patiently waits for a mistake/penalty by the attacking side. It does nothing for the game to see that.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:42 PM   #210
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But where does it end ? Penalty after penalty after penalty and all the while the defending team (NZ in this case - England and others have done the same) patiently waits for a mistake/penalty by the attacking side. It does nothing for the game to see that.
It ends when the Ref runs out of patience.
I think the we didn't see a penalty try because of the reaons I outlined earlier, but I reckon we were REAL close to a yellow card to one of the AB's tight forwards...
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