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Old 10-24-2012, 11:04 AM   #1
Pappy541 OP
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warm and safe jacket review

I know that there are many questions and other post on electric gear but I just wanted to make it quick and easy for someone doing a little research.

First off I have had a gerbing jacket for 5 years and have been happy with it.
It did what it was supossed to do, keep me warm. To me if something works there is no nead to change brands. Knowing that Gerbing had this new micro wire stuff and after having my gear for 5+ years it was time to get something new. Not an urgent desire but something that I would starting looking for. Now the reason I bought Gerbing in the first place was they were at the international moto show and had a great booth. They even have a trailer at our local BMW rally. I had never even heard of anyone else. With the internet things have changed and after reading post on ADVRIDER it was obvious that Warm and Safe had a loyal and happy base so I looked at their web page. Things looked good. BUT I like to touch things and I like to try them on. Warm and Safe had no dealers so I e-mailed Mike for info. That is where Mike started his magic. Within an hour he had sent me a response, no dealers but he was tring to find someone in my area that had a jack I could look at. In the mean time I had decided that I wanted the new water proof liner and was told that If I did not like it I could send it back or swap for a different size. I am 5-10 and 195 pounds / 44 inch chest and the size chart said L so that is what I ordered. 2 days latter the liner with remote controler arrived. Now the review:
WOW this jacket is everything that I wish the Gerbing had been. First this jacket looks great, very, very good. The Gerbing's looks sucked. The new W&S has micro wire and it is just like wearing any other non electric jacket. With the Gerbing it had those big bulky large wires that were uncomfortable. The W&S is water proof. never could understand why many of these liners are not. I can now get rid of the rain jacket. Next the material of the W&S is so much better than the gerbing and the coller is ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh so nice. And it is warm? I turn this thing on full bore and within 1/4 mile I am getting hot!! and in a few more seconds I have to turn it down. Even without it turned on it is warmer than the gerbing and when you turn the 90 watts on you can fry bacon. Now the down side. The L was not the right size. it sould have fit perfect but did not and I was concerned that an XL would be too big. But I ordered the XL and sent the L back. Well the XL is the correct size and I am a happy camper. Next the remote controler is really nice. I have it mounted inside the hand guard on the GSA and that is a great place and is easy to reach.
Now about Mike. He is a stand up guy that will bend over backwards to help. I also got a trade in on the gerbing!
This thread is not a Gerbing bash because my Gerbing served me well for over 5 years. But if you are sitting on the fence on what to buy or even if you should buy, I want to let you know this W&S jacket is great and dealing with Mike and his crew is easy, painless and fast.

thanks Mike,
Alan

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Old 10-24-2012, 01:49 PM   #2
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I have several WnS gear and couldn't agree more about Mike and the folks at WnS.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:26 PM   #3
StuartV
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I upgraded from a full Widder setup to the WnS waterproof liner and heated socks last week. And last weekend, I did a 550 mile loop, over to the coast (northern California) on Saturday and back on Sunday, on my GSX-R1000. Temps ranged from the low 50s to mid 60s. I wore my Motoport Air Mesh Kevlar jacket and pants with a spandex shirt, the Gen WP liner, spandex shorts, the WnS socks, and regular cotton socks (over the WnS socks). And Motoport Kevlar Racing gloves. And due to current circumstances, I wore my Sidi Vortice Air race boots (which are highly ventilated), instead of my normal Combat Touring Boots.

In other words, I wore my summer/hot weather riding suit, plus the WnS liner and socks. And I used the WnS Dual Remote controller, so I could control the socks separately from the jacket.

And, MAN! Why didn't I ever try heated socks BEFORE?!?! When I got my first Gerbing electric vest back in the mid to late 90s, I thought that was God's Gift to motorcyclists. And maybe it was. But, now I'm not sure which one I would give up if I absolutely had to. I turned on the socks long before I ever turned on the jacket liner. And even with my totally ventilated boots, I never turned the socks up past halfway. At halfway, my feet were HOT!

The jacket was also great and I never could stand to run it over about halfway on the controller, either. The jacket is supposed to be "temperature neutral". I'll grant that it is probably as temp neutral as it can be. But, I'd say it felt about 15 degrees warmer with the liner on, and turned off, than without it. And I'm fine with that. The heat was pretty even. I didn't notice any hot spots. But, I did notice some cold spots. Generally, just the spots at the sides of my lower back. There, when it was at its chilliest out and I had the liner turned up to where I could actually feel the heat, I could still feel these two spots on my back that were still kind of cold. However, that is just an observation - not a complaint.

I was previously a skeptic of the need for a dual channel controller or a remote. But, after one trip with them, I am sold. I can now easily see where (as one example), if I only had one controller that controlled both the socks and jacket, it might be fine with the suit I had on last weekend, but, if it was, then when I wore the same jacket and pants, but wore my Combat Touring Boots, the socks would almost certainly be too hot when the jacket was set to a comfortable level.

And once you have a 2 channel controller, then having the remote makes a lot more sense. With my old Widder single channel controller, it clipped to my pants pocket flap and I could operate it by feel. But, with 2 knobs, that would be a lot harder.

Now that I've said all that, I have to say that this gear still is not perfect (for me). And here are the things I would love to see changed:

- The remote controller module operates on 2 AAA batteries. And you can't change them without a very small Phillips head screwdriver. I'd like this setup even better if there was a way to replace the batteries without any tools. I realize it's probably the way it is to maximize its waterproofness. But, my Garmin GPS's (GPS V and 60Csx) are waterproof and I can change the batteries in them without any tools, so I think this could be improved.

- When you plug the gear into power, and you're using the wireless remote controller, the receiver turns on automatically to 30%. So then you immediately have to turn the remote on and back off, if you don't actually want your gear on. I'd like this setup even better if it came on at whatever level it was on when you lost power. Barring that, when you plug it on, stay off until the user turns it on. I believe this "feature" is to help the user in the situation where they have lost their remote or the remote is not working. To deal with that, I'd like it better if the receiver had a momentary button that let you turn the controller receiver on to a fixed level (30% or whatever), for the situation where you lost the remote or it is not working. I realize that this would inevitably increase the cost of the unit, but I'd pay a little extra for it to work this way.

- there is no coiled cord option for the power cable. I would like it better if there were. Mike says there is no coiled cable available with big enough (low enough gauge) wires. I think he said their cord is 16awg and the biggest coiled cord is 18awg. Okay, so maybe the technology isn't there and this isn't doable. But, I'd like my setup better if it were. I'm just sayin'...

- The jacket liner has plugs for connecting to gloves. They are only accessible from the outside of the sleeve. And that makes sense when the jacket is not waterproof. But, if you are like me and ride a bike that has your forearms angled downwards to reach the bars, then you are probably familiar with the sensation of cold rainwater running down the outside of your waterproof jacket sleeve and into the inside of your glove. For that reason, I like to wear my waterproof glove with the gauntlet tucked inside the sleeve of my waterproof jacket. Otherwise, I cannot keep my hands dry. And, unfortunately, the design of the Gen WP liner makes this pretty much impossible. All I think it needs is a buttonhole, similar to what is inside the left pocket, that gives access from inside the glove plug pocket to the inside of the sleeve. Then I could run the glove power leads down the inside of the sleeve to my glove or glove liner and have the Gen WP sleeve over/outside my waterproof glove gauntlet.

- the knobs on the remote turn with no resistance. I would like it better if there were some resistance there so I could tell that I'm actually turning them without having to look. I know. This is a VERY minor nit. But, that's what I'm doing here. Picking nits....

And, finally, I want to echo the other comments about the awesome Warm n Safe Customer Service. Ultimately, I placed 3 orders to get all the stuff I have ended up with. And they were responding to my emails on a Sunday, shipping gear I bought as a Trade Up without making me wait for them to receive the gear I was sending them, combining shipping on orders placed on separate days - without me having to ask - and just generally being friendly, proactive, and all-around great to deal with.

Pat Widder is a great guy and I loved his stuff. But, I think the whole WnS team is just as great and I like their gear even better!! I'm hoping Santa Girlfriend will bring me some WnS glove liners for Xmas....
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:40 PM   #4
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Mike's a Good Guy. He's a rider and ADV supporter. If you have a problem contact him directly. He will make it right.

Yes, I'm a W&S fanboy. He does good.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy541 View Post
IThe W&S is water proof. never could understand why many of these liners are not. I can now get rid of the rain jacket. Alan
Boy that would be great in my mesh jacket.

How much was the jacket liner?

I have a Gerbing micro-wire. While it has been working OK for me, it has been disappointing too. It has hot spots the fit is great though.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:32 AM   #6
Terry Bugera
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StuartV said "the knobs on the remote turn with no resistance. I would like it better if there were some resistance there so I could tell that I'm actually turning them without having to look"

Great reviews and a lot of good comments.

To adjust the resistance loosen the screw on the knob and push knob in. The more you push the more resistance, the knob is rubbing against an O-ring. Hope this helps.

I just got the WP jacket, glove liners with dual remote control. Will be using the gear for the first time in next two weeks in the Ozarks. - report to follow.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:44 AM   #7
StuartV
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Originally Posted by Terry Bugera View Post
To adjust the resistance loosen the screw on the knob and push knob in. The more you push the more resistance, the knob is rubbing against an O-ring. Hope this helps.
Thanks, Terry! I will give that a try.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:47 AM   #8
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Boy that would be great in my mesh jacket.

How much was the jacket liner?
Yes, it is! :-)

I think, with my trade up from my Widder vest, the waterproof jacket liner was $229? You can check the prices on warmnsafe.com. Look for the link on the left for Trade Up.

If you want to do the trade up, you just buy the item you want from their Trade Up section. Then, they send you an RMA # via email. You mail them the item you're trading in and then they mail you your new item. Or, if you're lucky like I was, they just go ahead and send you the new item immediately, and you send the old item at the same time.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by StuartV View Post
Yes, it is! :-)

I think, with my trade up from my Widder vest, the waterproof jacket liner was $229?
I was just looking at their web site. $290 for the waterproof jacket liner and about $100 for the remote controller.

That is double what I paid for my Gerbing stuff but I guess it works twice as well. My Gerbling jacket liner is disappointing but still, itís working for me.
I canít believe W&S would take it as a trade-in? But Iíll look into that.

I donít suppose my Gerbling controller would work with W & S gear?

I can see how the remote controller would be nice but I lose stuff and this looks like something I would lose.
Anyway, I was tempted to buy but they are out of stock in my usual size, XLTall. And then looking at their size chart I donít know what to get.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:47 PM   #10
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Ask Mike (heat_troller-Mike, on here, I think). But, I believe that, yes, they will take your Gerbing stuff on trade. And (I believe), yes, your Gerbing controller would work to control the WnS gear.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:27 PM   #11
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Ask Mike (heat_troller-Mike, on here, I think). But, I believe that, yes, they will take your Gerbing stuff on trade. And (I believe), yes, your Gerbing controller would work to control the WnS gear.
Thanks, I'll check all this stuff out.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:24 PM   #12
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Just FYI, I just checked and my spelling was wrong. It's heat-troller_Mike.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:20 PM   #13
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Quick question: I have some Motoport gear on the way, and am considering a WnS waterproof liner to wear underneath. I'm aware of Wayne's great jacket liners, but am still exploring all options.

I've heard some anecdotal remarks that the waterproof liner is not fully waterproof.

Does anyone have empirical evidence or experience with this?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesurf View Post
Quick question: I have some Motoport gear on the way, and am considering a WnS waterproof liner to wear underneath. I'm aware of Wayne's great jacket liners, but am still exploring all options.

I've heard some anecdotal remarks that the waterproof liner is not fully waterproof.

Does anyone have empirical evidence or experience with this?
After owning Motoport gear for a few years I retired the rain liners and ordered waterproof outer wear from Wayne. I much prefer this setup.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:01 PM   #15
Terry Bugera
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I wear Motoport Stretch Kevlar gear and W&S waterproof jacket.

I would say the w&s jacket would shed water in light rain while the stretch panel is not wp at all.
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