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Old 12-31-2012, 01:39 PM   #16
Kommando
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The biggest impact, IMO, is people who contribute to the population growth. People who have more than 1 child per parent contribute more to the long-term destruction/consumption/pollution of resources on this planet. 500 people on the planet could do pretty much whatever the hell they wanted, short of a nuclear event, and it would have minimal impact on the global environment. 10+billion people could live like total greenies and the planet could still be F'd.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:49 PM   #17
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And 4t thumpers with pipes are far FAR more obnoxiously noisy than 2t's.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceri JC View Post
Yup. The hiker who shouts/glares at you for riding your dirtbike down what they wrongly believe to be a "footpath" probably drove to their start point in a car. You almost certainly burnt less fuel in the same trip, despite using the bike for the 'hiking' part too.
If he just wanted to go for a walk he could have done so on the sidewalk next to a bunch of noisy vehicles. Most hikers have chosen to be hikers specifically to get away from the stuff that makes the sidewalk environment so unattractive. Nobody goes hiking in the woods to save gas.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:48 PM   #19
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Small Footprint

I grew up riding dirt bikes out of the SF Bay area. We ruined our hills by tearing them up with our knobbies. It is hard to imagine how deeply we scarred the range on Redwood Road above Oakland/San Leandro. No open area was safe from dirtbikes in early 1970s. They closed them not long after. And rightly so.

In recent years I bumped into a very small carbon footprint. After a marital split, I moved downtown to a high rise condo. I walk to work. I use the subways for wider travel. People take care of all my niggling needs. Snow, parking, mail, building upkeep, even my ceiling spots! Basically I use my car once per week to run errands. I rent a space for my motorcycles, but keep my 690 at home in my garage parking. That costs $1k/year for that bike. The storage unit costs another $1300/yr. Meanwhile my monthly condo dues are $1k per month, so none of this is cheap...

My heating/AC bill runs about $60 per month. I only fill my Subie gas tank once per month, and it would be less if I didn't have visitors who use my Subie for touring New England. I ride my motorcycles plenty but only on trips.

Compared to before, I use 10% carbons in heating alone. But the knobby damage is still there. Today i like riding out west and on remote dirt roads intended for the vehicles. My favorite so far is Smokey Mountain Road. It stretches for 100 miles between Page, AZ and Escalante UT. Spectacular, remote, and dangerous as a solo rider. I was stressed early because of the weather damage, but loved it after I figured it would allow me through. In the end, it is a fair trade.

I ride a Yam 250 thumper out west. It gets about 60 mpg.

P
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaverboy View Post
If he just wanted to go for a walk he could have done so on the sidewalk next to a bunch of noisy vehicles. Most hikers have chosen to be hikers specifically to get away from the stuff that makes the sidewalk environment so unattractive. Nobody goes hiking in the woods to save gas.
I fully understand that however as someone who lives out in the stix, I feel that person has no standing, its my land, or my community, not somebody's who came here to get away
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Beaverboy View Post
If he just wanted to go for a walk he could have done so on the sidewalk next to a bunch of noisy vehicles. Most hikers have chosen to be hikers specifically to get away from the stuff that makes the sidewalk environment so unattractive. Nobody goes hiking in the woods to save gas.
And motorcyclist just wanting to go for a ride could have stayed in the city or on the streets - but we go out there on two wheels for very similar reasons
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post
Excerpt from an interesting blog article I found recently. Your thoughts on the subject?

".....The vast majority of us who ride prefer to be challenged by nature and rewarded with spectacular vistas and a sense of solitude. Of course, the same can be said for many other forms of outdoor recreation. But if you want to talk in terms carbon foot print, few outdoor enthusiasts have as little impact on the environment as those who ride dual sports.

My single cylinder DRZ400 gets gas mileage that puts most economy cars to shame. On an average day ride Iíll burn one or two gallons of gas. During this ride Iíll normally see a decent representation of other outdoor enthusiasts. Hikers that commute 60 miles to the trailhead and back in their SUV. Campers in an old VW Bus that belches black exhaust as if it ran on soft coal. Mountain bikers unloading their bikes from a V8 powered Toyota Tundra. And of course, the equestrian setÖIíve yet to see a horse trailer being towed by a Prius. With the exception of road cyclists and a few avid mountain bikers, most everyone I see enjoying non-motorized forms of recreation in the forest has consumed more fossil fuels in a single day than I will in several rides. Donít these people care about the environment?

Now that Iím an exponent of environmentalism, next time I receive stink eye from a hiker Iíll feel justified in giving it right back. I realize that nature has a delicate beauty that must be appreciated and admiredÖwhen Iím not busy trying to haul ass through it."

Source: http://dualsportalchemy.com/2012/02/...ironmentalist/
Noise trumps all that Bullshit.

The thing that pisses people off the most about motorcycles is one thing: noise.

It's one thing to tolerate it on a highway, but out in the boonies, hearing a dirtbike roosting up the fire road a mile or two over just really pisses people off.

They're out there to enjoy the quiet and get away from it all, then some fucking motorcycle has to go blaring by with its fart can exhaust.

I'm an avid motorcyclist. The only thing that pisses me off more than an uncorked Harley is an uncorked dirtbike. Well, chainsaws are right up there...

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Old 12-31-2012, 05:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
I'm an avid motorcyclist. The only thing that pisses me off more than an uncorked Harley is an uncorked dirtbike. Well, chainsaws are right up there...

But us rednecks that live in TwistyRoad Hollow like loud exhaust
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:56 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Noise trumps all that Bullshit.
Actually, when talking carbon footprints, noise isn't even in the equation. Noise doesn't leave a mark or something to clean up.
The amount of UN-recyclable trash a person generates in his/her lifetime, and all the energy put into making, shipping and the land used to hold all that trash(landfill), is probably THE biggest contributor to a persons Carbon footprint.



http://makewealthhistory.org/2008/04...st-difference/

I do agree with you on the noise being a problem. There's no reason for it, except, "Hey, look at me!" There was talk earlier this year of the National Forest closing one trail(in a twenty+ trail system) because of the noise bleeding over into the private land nearby.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:04 PM   #25
rocker59
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[QUOTE=bwalsh;20367216]Actually, QUOTE]

actually, nobody cares about that stuff.

they go hiking in the mountains and the loud motorcycles disturb them, they complain.

total carbon footprint means squat.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:11 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post

total carbon footprint means squat.
Uh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by quote from first post
".....The vast majority of us who ride prefer to be challenged by nature and rewarded with spectacular vistas and a sense of solitude. Of course, the same can be said for many other forms of outdoor recreation. But if you want to talk in terms carbon foot print, few outdoor enthusiasts have as little impact on the environment as those who ride dual sports.
After all it was "carbon footprint" that was the crux of the article. Not noise.
If you want to talk about noisy bikes start another thread.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
As a member of a local conservation commission and as a land use consultant (certified wetland scientist) , I can say that yer wrong

the most significant disruption is granola bars, environmental zealots and other wannabes. the mere fact that your there is a disruption to their ideals

they cry erosion, sedimentation, noise, etc. the impact of a well maintained and designed trail for wheeled vehicles is no more than the horse trail or walking path. no I realize that not all ATV trailes are well designed or maintained, but the same goes for other nature activities

I promised myself I wasn't going to step into this one and then I read your post. Exactly.

People don't think of all the erosion that the human foot causes. Just look at the trails of old in the woods where only people and animals walked on them.

Thank you.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by WillyTheWimp View Post

People don't think of all the erosion that the human foot causes. Just look at the trails of old in the woods where only people and animals walked on them.

Thank you.
Wow, really? A foot does as much damage as a knobby?
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:31 PM   #29
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Wow, this thread is all over the place and some good points.
I'd like to try a different take on the OP's commentary. Let's do a little thought experiment and fast forward 30 years. One scenario is that petroleum could be expensive, either for supply or for environmental repair taxes (road maint. CO2, reclamation, etc).

If gas is $14 per gallon or is rationed, there is a lot of fun that could be had for a DS that gets 75 mpg (125 four strokes for example). It might be time to think ahead about costs and carbon footprint and I think there really is a place for smaller, but fun, bikes in that equation.

As others have said:

The social license to operate may actually become the limiting factor due to the noise in the back country aspect. That won't be the tool that gets used to restrict riding, but I do believe that is one of the primary features that drives those who would oppose DS riders.

Lee
(also a conservationist and wetland scientist!)
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bwalsh View Post
Wow, really? A foot does as much damage as a knobby?
compacting the soil can do more damage in some places, its relative to the situation, yes, sometimes a foot trail is more impacting than an ATV trail. In general, equestrian trails are the most impacting. Trail improvements can make a big difference on impacts

In my town, it seems that wheeled vehicles are hated the most, mountain bikes, as well as dirtbikes and ATVs, certainly not the noise as snowmobiling, & hunting are allowed on our conservation lands.

As many deer that I see feeding in the medians of busy highways I can't believe that noise is an issue for wildlife, it's something they adapt too. Theres no reason our park lands can't be multi-use
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