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Old 12-31-2012, 09:58 PM   #16
4x4runer OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droptarotter View Post
Have you tried putting a jumper battery onto it?
It is starting to sound more like a bad battery.
Not yet, where do it connect it to? Do I connect it to the starter itself or connect it to the battery.
Another question, if it is the battery, which battery to get?
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4runer View Post
Not yet, where do it connect it to? Do I connect it to the starter itself or connect it to the battery.
Another question, if it is the battery, which battery to get?
If you can......positive to starter positive terminal.....negative to engine........or put both on the battery.

As to what battery.............12V

Just kidding...........I'm still partial to Yuasa's as they just bolt in. But there are many other alternatives.........it's kind of like an oil thread regarding what battery to buy.

Good luck
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:07 AM   #18
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4runer View Post
Removed the ground, pulled the starter, checked the wires to the relay, all seemed to check out. However I didn't know what to look for with the starter. The drive mech on the starter looked great, the flywheel that the starter turns looks fine meaning no broken teeth or excessive wear. Opened up the starter and all looked good. Tried to bring the starter into the motorcycle shop down the road but he was closing. He was nice enough to talk with me and he seemed to think it was a battery problem.
I hooked everything back up hoping it would magically work, no luck. I tried to start the bike And smoke came from where the ground and subframe connect. I removed all the black paint from the subframe, removed that washer and hooked it back up and .... No luck, however it starts much easier. Instead of making the full motion with the kickstarter, I pulled the decompression lever, moved the kicker an inch or so and starts with ease. So, maybe a battery issue? Any other thoughts.
In one of your posts you mentioned that you had the battery load tested and checked out OK... A proper load test will focus on the battery reserve cranking amps, where did you get it tested at?

All what you have mentioned does point toward a battery that no longer has any reserve left, but if a proper load test proved otherwise then your issue is likely elsewhere...

Like Drop mentioned try a direct connection to the starter with a test battery and then your battery and see if both will spin the engine properly... As soon as the positive makes contact with the pole on the starter body the starter will spin so be ready for this... If the starter does spin properly with a direct hook up on each battery then you have eliminated a bad battery as the problem and need to look elsewhere...


You mentioned that the internals of the starter looked fine, I'm assuming then that it was pretty clean and the brushes were fine? Here is a thread on the starter:http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155071


Also if you haven't already, spend a bit of time looking through the index to try locate similar issues and fixes:http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86958
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
In one of your posts you mentioned that you had the battery load tested and checked out OK... A proper load test will focus on the battery reserve cranking amps, where did you get it tested at?

All what you have mentioned does point toward a battery that no longer has any reserve left, but if a proper load test proved otherwise then your issue is likely elsewhere...

Like Drop mentioned try a direct connection to the starter with a test battery and then your battery and see if both will spin the engine properly... As soon as the positive makes contact with the pole on the starter body the starter will spin so be ready for this... If the starter does spin properly with a direct hook up on each battery then you have eliminated a bad battery as the problem and need to look elsewhere...


You mentioned that the internals of the starter looked fine, I'm assuming then that it was pretty clean and the brushes were fine? Here is a thread on the starter:http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155071


Also if you haven't already, spend a bit of time looking through the index to try locate similar issues and fixes:http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86958

Gunner - I had the battery out and tested at batteries plus (they also had the same battery in stock - almost bought it). However he just had some big clamps for the test and really couldn't hook the clamps on the battery, just made contact with the clamps to the battery. I was wondering how accurate this was.

The internals of the starter looked fine. A small to moderate amount of black powder came out of the starter in the form of small bb shaped pellets.

I did try several searches on here but brought up alot of random stuff. I've got to work three 12 hr shifts comming up, wont be able to play with the bike till this weekend. Thanks for all the info. I'll look at those threads.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #20
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4runer View Post
Gunner - I had the battery out and tested at batteries plus (they also had the same battery in stock - almost bought it). However he just had some big clamps for the test and really couldn't hook the clamps on the battery, just made contact with the clamps to the battery. I was wondering how accurate this was.

The internals of the starter looked fine. A small to moderate amount of black powder came out of the starter in the form of small bb shaped pellets.

I did try several searches on here but brought up alot of random stuff. I've got to work three 12 hr shifts comming up, wont be able to play with the bike till this weekend. Thanks for all the info. I'll look at those threads.

I dont know about the test that B-Plus carried out, with out the proper hookup your right to wonder about the accuracy...
I have taken batteries to Walmart for load testing, they do a good test and give a printout of the results...
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Old 01-11-2013, 03:01 PM   #21
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no progress yet. i've tested the battery again at advanced auto and they also said it was good. Report read voltage 12.64 and 224 cca.
i hooked a 12 volt car battery directly to the starter and the starter didn't spin much. All i had on hand was old thin speaker wires to do the test. what gauge wires should i use to do this next time?
i removed the ground and replaced it with a wire from the negative to the starter mounting bolt, no change.
i took the relay apart, all the pins looked good, no corrosion on the pins. is there any electrical grease that would help.
i did find two straps comming from the battery's positive terminal to the relay. Anyone know if this is factory, i'm guessing not so i took one of them off. the wire from the starter to the relay is missing its rubber protective boot on the relay side. My guess is the previous owner has looked into this issue and couldn't figure it out. All he told me was he replaced the starter.
I found the original starter and took it to have it bench tested and it tested at 18 amps not under a load. He said they the norm is 20 amps. Is this correct. Would 18 amps still start the bike w/o problems
I removed all the paint around the ground to make sure it was a good ground.
Still no improvements.
Other thoughts - tight valves (havent checked), wiring issue - maybe i'm dropping voltage somewhere, bad relay,??
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Old 01-11-2013, 05:37 PM   #22
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shit, after messing around with it, checking wires and the relay, i hooked the tender up to let it charge. i went to start the bike and it engaged the starter but weakly, it died like it usually does. tried again, and now it wont even engage the starter just a click at the relay.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:43 PM   #23
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4runer View Post
shit, after messing around with it, checking wires and the relay, i hooked the tender up to let it charge. i went to start the bike and it engaged the starter but weakly, it died like it usually does. tried again, and now it wont even engage the starter just a click at the relay.
It does sound like either you have a short somewhere in the wiring or maybe in the starter itself... If the PO had a problem and messed with the wires to fix it maybe it is now having the same issue... Maybe get in contact with him and ask a bit of the bikes history...
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:13 PM   #24
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i just got it inspected but it failed because the brake light was not comming on. we found power all the way to the socket but had to run a jumper from outside the socket to inside the socket for the light to come on. thats the only wiring problem that i could think of.
actually i had an intermitten starting problem from the estart switch itself, but that was fixed when i took the switch completly apart and cleaned the contacts.
maybe i will take the new starter out and have it bench tested. could put the original back in
gunner- do you think it could be a bad battery, maybe several different issues together.
i did get 12.4 volts to the starter
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:50 PM   #25
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What a pisser.
I would remove the starter and hook it up to your existing wiring. Put a piece of 2X4 where the starter sits...hold the starter in your hands and when it is spinning put the starter nose down on the wood. Does it have cranking power?

That's how my local electro mech guy quick tests starters for cranking power.
Clamps them in a vice, hooks them up and gives them the lumber test.

Crude but effective.
I've done it myself to car starters, tells the tale quick.
Crunch.
bill
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:02 PM   #26
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will try it tomorrow
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #27
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got up this morning, hoping all this was a bad dream, went to start the bike and "click". Click, click, click. FU. 20 minutes to kick it over and it fires up. Always easier to kick it over when it warm, always a PITA to kick over when cold. Went for a hr ride or so.
Got home and cut the bike off and tried to estart it and got another click. I put pliers on the starter relay and got the starter motor to turn over for half a second and removed the pliers. I tried it to put the pliers on it again and nothing. Why would the pliers only engage the starter once?
Heres a stupid question, could i have hooked up the starter relay backwards? I found a pic of another 625 starter relay and hooked it up according to the pic. Thanks for all the help. I'll get it figured out sooner or later.
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Old 01-12-2013, 03:38 PM   #28
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so i rode again, took it to a battery shop, put a new one in and the got the same starter click. next i took it over to a bike mech. who used to sell ktms. he wasnt doing much and agreed to take a quick look. he hooked up a battery booster to it which also resulted in just a click. he suggested actually looking at all the connections and see if any soder or wire connections have come loose.
who would test a relay to see if its the problem? i don't mind ordering a new one but dont want to replace everything to find out it was bad connection somewhere.
i pretty sure i ruled out the battery.
the previous owner replaced the starter, so i'm guessing that not it either - will try bench testing the starter.

when i pull the decompression lever in, use the kicker and push the estarter, sometimes the starter will engage but very weak and slow (only if i keep the decomp lever pulled and estart button pressed while using the kicker). could this be a resistance problem, meaning something is binding somewhere.

still thinking wiring problem. is the cable from the starter to the relay one piece?

also lost my liceance plate bracket with plate and blinkers today. luckily i lost in close to the house and found it, however it looks better with it off. i don't think the po po likes that though.

this thing is a PITA to kick.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:55 PM   #29
Droptarotter
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Do like Bill suggested and remove the starter for a bench test. Could be you need to rebuild the starter, but remove it first and bench test.
That way you will eliminate the wiring. If the starter does not work.......it's the starter..........if it works..........look into the wiring/starter solenoid/ relays/fuses/ switches.

Keep hunting.............you will find it.

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Old 01-12-2013, 06:18 PM   #30
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Got a multimeter? If no but a cheap one and learn how to use it off youtube etc.

While cranking:-

1. test voltage at battery terminals
2. test voltage neg on batt, pos on starter
3. test voltage pos on starter, neg on starter housing

If you have differences in voltages you have a problem in the wiring, do not forget the earth.

If all tests ok then check your starter, just because something is brand new doesnt mean its right.
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