625 smc starting gremlins

[4x4runer]

will these test work if the starter is not turning, relay just clicking.

[Aussie Steve]

Originally Posted by 4x4runer

will these test work if the starter is not turning, relay just clicking.

Yep

[4x4runer]

voltage = 12.65 with ignition on, battery off the tender all night.
voltage with estart and voltage drops down to 9.5 to 10
voltage with pos to positive batery terminal, negative to starter = voltage drops to 0
voltage positive on starter, negative on housing and the voltage jumps to 12.5 while cranking, it was 0 when not cranking.

interesting thing is the starter engaged 1st try but very slow/weak. tried again and could get the the starter to engage again if i held the estart in but so weak, it sounded like a dying squealing animal. tried again and just a click.

going to dig into the wiring again.

[Aussie Steve]

Originally Posted by 4x4runer

voltage = 12.65 with ignition on, battery off the tender all night.
voltage with estart and voltage drops down to 9.5 to 10 This sounds good
voltage with pos to positive batery terminal, negative to starter = voltage drops to 0where on starter, I presume positive?
voltage positive on starter, negative on housing and the voltage jumps to 12.5 while cranking, it was 0 when not cranking.This is a good reading, would have been happier if you could have got it while starter was turning though.

interesting thing is the starter engaged 1st try but very slow/weak. tried again and could get the the starter to engage again if i held the estart in but so weak, it sounded like a dying squealing animal. tried again and just a click.

going to dig into the wiring again.

From the above, as long as my presumption on where you tested starter is correct, the wiring, relays etc tests out ok. I would double check the earth strap going to the frame on the left hand side of the airbox and bench test starter as per Bills suggestion.

[4x4runer]

it starts, it starts i'll still kick it every once in a while.
rechecked all wires again, pulled the wire from the starter to the relay, checked all connections - all seemed good.

pulled the starter and bench tested it again and nothing. couldn't get it to do anything. pulled it apart and the inside was toast. small bearing fell out and one of the copper contacts (?) was busted out. one of the carbon brushes (?) was completly wore down and not sure it was making contact with the copper. I'll have it rebuilt, the guy said he would rebuild it for 80$ or so. i pulled it apart a week ago, and there was no obivious damage, something must have gave way.

i put the original starter in (this one was bench tested and tested at 18 amps w/o a load). started right up. however, when the bike is at top dead center, i get that click again. if i move it past tdc and estart it, starts w/o hesitation. how long will a starter last at 18 amps.

what is the ground on the right hand side? i sanded all the pain off that side as well.

there is still two leads from the positive terminal to the relay and i'm not sure why. should i remove it?

what the best method to start this bike and keep the strain off everything. Assist the estarter with the kicker, estarter alone, kick it only?

i also fabed up another license plate bracket. however the blinkers ripped off with the brackets so i have to fix the wires and blinkers.

[gunnerbuck]

Originally Posted by 4x4runer

it starts, it starts i'll still kick it every once in a while.
rechecked all wires again, pulled the wire from the starter to the relay, checked all connections - all seemed good.

pulled the starter and bench tested it again and nothing. couldn't get it to do anything. pulled it apart and the inside was toast. small bearing fell out and one of the copper contacts (?) was busted out. one of the carbon brushes (?) was completly wore down and not sure it was making contact with the copper. I'll have it rebuilt, the guy said he would rebuild it for 80$ or so. i pulled it apart a week ago, and there was no obivious damage, something must have gave way.

i put the original starter in (this one was bench tested and tested at 18 amps w/o a load). started right up. however, when the bike is at top dead center, i get that click again. if i move it past tdc and estart it, starts w/o hesitation. how long will a starter last at 18 amps.

what is the ground on the right hand side? i sanded all the pain off that side as well.

there is still two leads from the positive terminal to the relay and i'm not sure why. should i remove it?

what the best method to start this bike and keep the strain off everything. Assist the estarter with the kicker, estarter alone, kick it only?

i also fabed up another license plate bracket. however the blinkers ripped off with the brackets so i have to fix the wires and blinkers.

I thought you checked the inside of the starter long ago? It was mentioned to do so in post #2 way back when you started this thread.. It seems like you have been going in circles for 3 pages, but at least you figured it out...

[mcma111]

[4x4runer]

gunner, thanks for all you help and suggestions. i agree with you 100%, i was going in circles and i learned alot about the 625 starting system.

i did pull the starter out, take it apart, take it to a bike mech and put it back on. i also said i wan't sure what i was looking for. i din't see any obvious damage (now there is obvious damage). the bike mech was closing and told me to do what you guys said, jump it and see what happens but he never actually looked at it.

i assumed because i did not see any obvious issues and the prevoius owner replaced it and experienced the same problems as before he replaced it, i put it back together and thought the problem was elsewhere. this starter couldn't be that old. less than a year and has't been rode much before i bought it.

there is alot of info out there with similar issues like mine and lots of different answers. and it was a little confusing to me because the symptoms changed or i guess progressed to just a starting click.

again thanks to everyone, if your around central va - i'd buy you a beer. we live next door to a local brewery.

[bmwktmbill]

Sometimes you have to bump the piston past TDC with a double click of the starter button or pull the compression release to get it past.

Glad you found it, we have all been there.
Another tip, in the future if you get a dead battery you can jump off a car battery using your long test leads as jumper cables.

No need to wear the rebuilt starter around your neck for a week....
bill

[wrk2surf]

No one has brought up the infamous sprague clutch ... his story mirrors mine about 4 years ago ..perhaps that is why with every thing new it is still a hard starter..

[Aussie Steve]

Originally Posted by wrk2surf

No one has brought up the infamous sprague clutch ... his story mirrors mine about 4 years ago ..perhaps that is why with every thing new it is still a hard starter..

So your sprague clutch stopped the starter from turning over?

Have only heard of them spinning without engaging?

[gunnerbuck]

Originally Posted by Aussie Steve

So your sprague clutch stopped the starter from turning over?

Have only heard of them spinning without engaging?

I've never seen a bad sprague stop the starter from turning over... Usually when the starter really struggles to turn the engine it means the auto decomp is not properly functioning...

I have seen plenty of bad spragues that struggle to turn the engine over though, but the starter still spins fine...

[4x4runer]

anybody know where i can get the starter armature. mine has a bad spot, i took it over to have it rebuilt but he cant find the armature. since i have two, i guess i could combine the two, and then have it rebuilt. it would be nice to have a spare.

[bmwktmbill]

4X4,

http://www.manta.com/mb_34_E52B6_000...ing_shops?pg=5

Let us know....


bill