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Old 10-13-2013, 10:49 PM   #1111
bonox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Reg Pridmore was talking riding technique and told the class that he doesn't "believe" in countersteering.
where's the popcorn? I'm willing to bet you london to a brick that no-one in this thread is changing anyone else's mind about this shit.




But good marks for trying
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:24 AM   #1112
Fajita Dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Wow,

My brother just got back from the CLASS Motorcycle School down at VIR. Reg Pridmore was talking riding technique and told the class that he doesn't "believe" in countersteering.

Instead, Reg said, he shifts his weight left and the bike turns left, shifts his weight right and the bike turns right.

My brother, who has taken the BRC, ERC and Lee Parks Total Control riding clinic, thought that was a bit strange as up to this point everyone has drilled and drilled on countersteering. Anyway, not doubting Reg's riding cred, my brother said he tried to take a few corners just by leaning and nearly ran off the track.

This is from the CLASS website..



Talk about teaching bad habits! WTF?
I'm thinking he needs to ride the Superbike School's no BS bike.
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:25 PM   #1113
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Originally Posted by bonox View Post
where's the popcorn? I'm willing to bet you london to a brick that no-one in this thread is changing anyone else's mind about this shit.
It really doesn't matter what anyones mind says. The facts remains that a moving motorcycle does NOT TURN without some type of countersteering taking place.

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Old 10-14-2013, 03:56 PM   #1114
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
It really doesn't matter what anyones mind says. The facts remains that a moving motorcycle does NOT TURN without some type of countersteering taking place.

Its like that quote frim neil degrasse tyson about science; "you don't have to believe it for it to be true"

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Old 10-16-2013, 03:48 AM   #1115
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Originally Posted by drienkm View Post
You're fine. Countersteering is only taught explicitly so that those who really didn't know how to swerve quickly will know how, and to help reinforce the instinct of those who are already comfortable with the idea.
For me it goes like this... I'm riding... I swerve for some reason... somewhere in the back of my mind I think "Yep - that was countersteering."

It's like when you carry a really heavy toolbox in one hand and stick the opposite arm out to the side. Nobody taught you to do it, but if you know basic principles of statics, you can think to yourself "that arm is a counterballance", and perhaps take better advantage of the principle.
THANK YOU!!! I wish I'd never asked the darn question but this along with maybe a handful other answers actually gives me the info I need. Now hopefully this thread will be put our of it's (our) misery : )
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:30 AM   #1116
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sorry irish john.I went back and read your o.p. and i really don't think you have it.
if you are turning you are counteersteering. that is correct.
however as you asked in post 1 you should.
1. make a deliberate push or pull on the bars and get used to the reaction of the bike.
2. repeat, getting gradually more aggressive with your inputs.
3. do not move your body or lean with the bike when practicing this. make the bike move under you. (don't be rigid,however. this is different than when you are going around a sweeping turn and want to lean your body in the turn.
4. do this until it become completely automatic.
5. this is not a skill that is instinctive,
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:15 PM   #1117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Wow,

My brother just got back from the CLASS Motorcycle School down at VIR. Reg Pridmore was talking riding technique and told the class that he doesn't "believe" in countersteering.

Instead, Reg said, he shifts his weight left and the bike turns left, shifts his weight right and the bike turns right.

My brother, who has taken the BRC, ERC and Lee Parks Total Control riding clinic, thought that was a bit strange as up to this point everyone has drilled and drilled on countersteering. Anyway, not doubting Reg's riding cred, my brother said he tried to take a few corners just by leaning and nearly ran off the track.

This is from the CLASS website..



Talk about teaching bad habits! WTF?

Note to self... never take instruction from Reg Pridmore. Ever.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:19 PM   #1118
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Originally Posted by Barry View Post
Note to self... never take instruction from Reg Pridmore. Ever.
Is it REG PRIDMORE or Boon Booni's brother? Think about it.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:25 PM   #1119
Barry
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Is it REG PRIDMORE or Boon Booni's brother? Think about it.

Well... one of then is an idiot for sure.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #1120
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Well... one of then is an idiot for sure.
Chances are it's NOT Reg.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:51 PM   #1121
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Chances are it's NOT Reg.
The idiot is the one who doesn't "believe" in countersteering.

Either Reg Pridmore is wrong or Lee Parks is wrong.

Choose one.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:01 PM   #1122
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I for one firmly believe in and use active countersteering. I know what it does for me and what I can get from the bike for using it.

So really, the point is, get some training, realize there is more out there than you know, learn it (whatever style), practice it and USE it. Find what works for you and use it, actively.

It's the riders who feel they know it all, or feel they don't have to learn it or use any technique, just ride along into "whatever happens land", that end up as bumper-meat or of the road somewhere.

An analogy might be golf. I finally gave up on getting much better than a hack on the golf course. I studied techniques, the "right" way to do it, tried to learn the classic grip, stance, swing, etc, and I suck at it. My buddy, with a twisted up, rough looking swing technique, regularly hits in the mid-to low eighties for 18. He found what works for him.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:46 AM   #1123
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Cycle World Countersteering Article w/ Graphic 25Oct2013

http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/10/25...eer-correctly/

* I posted the graphic here & then removed it because I wasn't 100% about ADV rider policy on pasting in magazine content

Here is how the article starts:

""Every rider knows that you lean when your turn. Yet few understand a critical aspect of this—countersteering.
Countersteering is the technique you consciously or unconsciously apply to initiate that lean. In short, you steer left to lean right, and vice versa. To fully understand the theory, you need to get your head around camber thrust, roll angle, and centripetal force. But to ride you only need to understand the practice."

I did a search & here is another article they printed on the topic 23July2012:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/07/23/land-of-the-lost/

This article begins:

"In the June edition of my monthly Service department in Cycle World’s print magazine, I offered a basic explanation of motorcycle countersteering. I did so in response to a question submitted by a reader whose bike had been crashed by a relative who evidently did not know—or remember, if he did know—that countersteering is what a rider must use to make a bike turn.
Then, in the August issue, I included a reactive letter from a gentleman named Sam Adair who insisted that countersteering does not exist. He told me to stop spreading such “utter nonsense,” claiming that “I lean my bike into corners all the time, up to 45 degrees, and have never once ‘countersteered.’ Look left, lean left, turn left; look right, lean right, turn right… No countersteering necessary.”
I did not run Mr. Adair’s letter in Service to ridicule him; instead, I hoped it would motivate readers to respond with their own opinions on the topic and shine more much-needed light on a subject that every motorcycle rider should know and understand—and that could keep more riders alive and well.
It worked. Since the August issue reached subscribers and newsstands, dozens of responses, both electronic and paper, have poured in commenting on Mr. Adair’s unshakable rejection of pure physical reality. What follows are some of the, uh, more interesting excerpts......"
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:32 AM   #1124
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When my wife was studying for her mc license in 1985 she asked me about countersteering, which was in the manual she was studying. I read the paragraph and told her I didn't know. This is after a life on bicycles and 17 years on motorcycles. Next time I got on my scooter, I checked this phenomenon out. It made a sea change in my motorcycling technique, made my actions crisp, and generally took the mystery out of steering. Shifting my weight is mostly a result of handlebar pressure; I am really on the handlebars as I go now.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:09 AM   #1125
sloweddy
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Excellent Post Scootrboi!

I know what you mean. I still remember the day (back in the late 70's) when I first read about countersteering in one of the cycle magazines.

I was a fairly new to motorcycling - but I had been bicycling since I was a kid & was a bicycle geek in high school (think "Breaking Away" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078902/) and had ridden a loaded touring bike down the Pacific Coast Highway from San Francisco to Orange County the summer after high school.

Anyway - I read the countersteering article and thought "no way!" And since there were no internet forums full of arguments for & against countersteering I just got on my XS400 & gave it a try. I was amazed - and I think it really did make a difference in my cornerning technique as well as my emergency avoidance practice & ability.

What I don't understand is that if people have a motorcyle to practice on & if they read about Keith Code's "No BS Bike" - how they can fail to understand that countersteering is what makes motorcycles turn. On the other hand there are many Americans who say they believe that Astronomers, Geologists & Biologists are wrong about pretty much everything & that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old - so I guess I shouldn't really be too surprised about "countersteering deniers" : )
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