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Old 01-05-2013, 08:55 AM   #121
WFO#1
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Hey racer, here's a quote for ya that pertains to government involvement in motorcycle safety.
“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”
Ronald Reagan

hey farmer, give it a rest already
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:00 AM   #122
rbrsddn
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When I was a teen, we used to try to balance on the pegs at a standstill, and see who could stay up the longest without putting a foot down. A lot of bar twisting was happening trying to stay up. I probably learned a lot about CS without knowing it!
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:45 AM   #123
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer111v View Post
Lots of turning with out counter steering......yes I know this is impossible.
Have you gone back and watched the video again? It is a great example of counter-steering at slow speeds.

Even a Trials rider knows that when the bike is falling to the left and he wants to get the balance back... He needs to go right. Does he turn the bars to the right to do this?

NO... If he did he would need to put a foot down to keep from falling.

He turns the bars to the left to make the bike go right. (get the balance back)
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:16 AM   #124
Racer111v
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As I said in an earlier response, it's a matter of perception on my part.
I don't get the counter steer feel (turning) on a trials bike. I guess to some degree it's the steep steering head angle, etc... When you turn the bars you get a subtle change in the COG compared to a heavier street bike with more rake.
On a trials bike I can stand on the pegs, get my balance, turn the bars quickly to either side and keep my balance with out dabbing. On a street bike I can stand on the pegs, get my balance, quickly turn the bars to either side and immediately fall down.
When I watch the vid I see the rider making subtle bar moves constantly because of the terrain. Does he turn left before turning right ? Yes .....
But I guess the statement that you can't turn at any speed without counter steering doesn't settle with me. At one point he crests a hill with the front wheel. He turns the wheel to the right in the air. When the front wheel touches the ground, the bike turns to the right .I watch him turning fairly hard to the right, the just turn harder to the right to follow the trail. On my street bike, there would have been an obvious counter steer in there.
In an other vid I viewed it showed the rider weaving around a group of puddles. It looks odd in the fact that he turns left and right by turning the bars left then right. On my street bike I would be counter steering at that speed.

When all is said and done, this is just my feel and observations.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:51 AM   #125
Lion BR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
don't you people read the theads you post in?
can't believe i'm gettting sucked ito this again. a good demo is to take a piece of rope around the bar ends and try steering with them.(can't push ,only pull) it will quickly become apparent.
i compare a good mc. rider to a good horse rider. i.e. i can ride a horse,i know the mechanics of how to ride, however i have no confidence that the horse is going to do what i want it to do. when i ride a mc. i know,just like a good horseback rider knows the horse, that the bike is going to do what i want it to do. riding horse is unsafe for me, if you can't make your mc. do what you want it to do under any conditions mc.riding is unsafe for you.
You partially quote me and post the text above. What is your point?
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:15 PM   #126
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Definite prove that countersteering is a fact. If you are still confused, well... there is nothing wrong with it.

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Old 01-06-2013, 05:03 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
You partially quote me and post the text above. What is your point?
the point is you apparently believe that countersteering begins at some magical speed,while there are numerous posts on this thread that prove that's a myth. counter steering begins as soon as you pick your feet up and become a single track vehicle.
the part about the horseriding is to illustrate the point that many riders may be able to get from point a to point b and do it for years but they really don't have control.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:44 PM   #128
Jay D
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
First welcome to the Asylum.

But your first post on advrider.com is WRONG!!!

Your $0.02 ain't worth diddly squat!

Can you please post the video of this police motorcycle training... Or at the very least watch it again before sitting down to your ample plate of crow.

Here, let me help... How did the bike in said video get leaned over so it could complete the 18' circle?

Answer: Counter-steer


If a bike is moving at 1mph, 5mph, 15mph, 60mph or any fraction there of... Be it a trials bike, Sport Bike, Dual Sport or Cruiser.... To turn the bike some type of counter-Steer is initiated EVERY TIME!!!

END OF STORY.

Is that clear enough?

One of the most important new skills a rider learns is how to Counter Steer or Push Steer correctly with confidence. Some have problems with the technique, some are timid and others just were never taught properly.
I like using the work "Push Steering" rather than "Counter Steering" because it is easier to visualize and imagine.
Push Steering is when you want to turn (lean) the bike at speeds over 20km/h. While you can do all sorts of things to turn the motorcycle rather than push steer, push steering works the best of all. It should be practiced until done with confidence and correctly because it is very important skill to have. Once you have read this article I believe it will bring your confidence right up!

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/school-SectionFiveB.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVAz5Zk3PFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZqPc24Jk7A
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:26 PM   #129
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Whether they know it or not anybody who's ever ridden a bicycle already knows, in their lizard brain, how to countersteer. Everybody is wired differently, for some making them consciously think about countersteering may be helpful but for others it may be a distraction. JMHO, but I think "look where you wanna go" is the best thing for a new, or any rider, to focus on.

One time, when I was SURE I'd overcooked a turn at speed the only thing that saved my bacon was remembering to "look through the turn" and "your bike is better than you are." I'm pretty sure that trying to think about countersteering instead would've ended up in a faceplant. But hey, that's just me...
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:14 AM   #130
Lion BR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerstu View Post
the point is you apparently believe that countersteering begins at some magical speed,while there are numerous posts on this thread that prove that's a myth. counter steering begins as soon as you pick your feet up and become a single track vehicle.
the part about the horseriding is to illustrate the point that many riders may be able to get from point a to point b and do it for years but they really don't have control.
Fair enough.
But I would love to see a video where you are countersteering your bike as you move it in your garage, turning the handlebars right to make it go left. Or make a one-lane U-turn to the left with the handlebars turned to the right.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:27 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Fair enough.
But I would love to see a video where you are countersteering your bike as you move it in your garage, turning the handlebars right to make it go left. Or make a one-lane U-turn to the left with the handlebars turned to the right.
Seriously? When pushing the bike, while walking next to it? Are you high?


Even when making a slow u-turn, the bike has to lean into the turn or it will fall over toward the outside of the turn. To make the bike lean you had to counter steer.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:33 AM   #132
Jim Moore
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Originally Posted by duck View Post
One time, when I was SURE I'd overcooked a turn at speed the only thing that saved my bacon was remembering to "look through the turn" and "your bike is better than you are." I'm pretty sure that trying to think about countersteering instead would've ended up in a faceplant. But hey, that's just me...
Maybe if you had been thinking about countersteering at the beginning of the turn you would have gotten the bike snapped over quickly enough to make the turn a non-event. Or you might have realized that a simple mid-turn nudge on the handgrip in the correct direction would have made the turn a non-event. Willful ignorance seems to have worked for you in this case, but it's probably not the best way to go.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:51 AM   #133
Jim Moore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Fair enough.
But I would love to see a video where you are countersteering your bike as you move it in your garage, turning the handlebars right to make it go left. Or make a one-lane U-turn to the left with the handlebars turned to the right.
In your garage you are no longer a two-wheel inline vehicle. Your feet are outriggers, which makes the entire discussion moot.

In you second example, the countersteering occurs first. Countersteerng makes the bike lean. As the bike leans into the turn, the front wheel has reverse direction and turn into the turn. That keeps the now-leaned bike from falling over. So your front wheel ends up turned into the turn, but the lean / turn itself was initiated by countersteering. The same thing happens at high speed, but it's much less noticeable.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:47 AM   #134
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
Fair enough.
But I would love to see a video where you are countersteering your bike as you move it in your garage, turning the handlebars right to make it go left. Or make a one-lane U-turn to the left with the handlebars turned to the right.

And when you are completing said u-turn and now want to go straight (right) which way do you turn the bars?
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:47 AM   #135
David R
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You don't turn the bars, just push enough to get the needed result.

I told my self to stay outta this.

Sent from the phone in my shoe. Maxwell Smart.
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