Soccer Thread V1: Klinsmann for Gold?

[wxwax]

I was referring to a certain match last season.

Also... Neuer.

[Bshelton]

Im liking the posts on this thread guys, keep it up!! In other news, anyone see that Nigeria won the ACON?

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

I was referring to a certain match last season.

Also... Neuer.

I didn't really catch that. Doesn't really concern me though. I am not a Bayern fan. You won't find many people in Germany wishing teams playing in european games any ill. Not even if they have a fierce rivalry when playing in Germany.
My club, if you can consider me having one, would be Hertha BSC Berlin. Hard to not take interest if you can hear a full stadium from your balcony.
They are taking a visit to 2. league this year. They'll be up again next year, if they don't fuck up and lose 10 points on third placed Kaiserslautern. Could be 13 points on monday.

BTW. Jones got a Champions League goal on wednesday (and a yellow for misconduct) for Schalke against Galatasaray Istanbul.



Watch a replay. Neuer expected Martinez to head away the ball and already moved into a new position. A misunderstanding than can happen at times. You can see Martinez making a jumping movement but restricts himself to a bit of touching and shoving with the player behind him, not that there is anything wrong with touching and shoving other guys.
Neuer didn't look good there, but it was hardly a fluke or lack of ability.

[wxwax]

Neuer made two howlers. Weird. Like he wasn't concentrating.

Jones scored a good goal. Lots of players look good for club but not country. For the US he's poor at keeping the ball moving, passing accurately and he loses the ball. I'd hoped for more when they gave him the starting job, I was excited at what he might bring.

I don't watch any Bundesliga but I admire the heck out of the league for balancing its books and filling its stadiums with passionate fans. FFP should help German clubs in Europe, if it's administered fairly.

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

Neuer made two howlers. Weird. Like he wasn't concentrating.

Jones scored a good goal. Lots of players look good for club but not country. For the US he's poor at keeping the ball moving, passing accurately and he loses the ball. I'd hoped for more when they gave him the starting job, I was excited at what he might bring.

I don't watch any Bundesliga but I admire the heck out of the league for balancing its books and filling its stadiums with passionate fans. FFP should help German clubs in Europe, if it's administered fairly.

I only saw the one goal as a bit of a howler. I think defenders and goalkeepers get attacked way too often for not fixing the faults of others.
Neuer does few blunders, but gets called on them way too often.
His best feature is being a playing keeper. Sometimes he is more a sweeper than a keeper.

Jones isn't a player with the skill to pick out unfamiliar players on the fly. With Schalke he knows the other players and can anticipate their movement.

Paris Saint-Germaine will be the big test of how serious the UEFA is with FFP. Their sponsorship is badly inflated and the Quatari company sponsoring them is headed by Laurent Platini (his father is head of UEFA). He got that post a few weeks after the World Cup 2022 was awarded to Quatar.

[wxwax]

Originally Posted by ThePikeman

I only saw the one goal as a bit of a howler. I think defenders and goalkeepers get attacked way too often for not fixing the faults of others.
Neuer does few blunders, but gets called on them way too often.
His best feature is being a playing keeper. Sometimes he is more a sweeper than a keeper.

Jones isn't a player with the skill to pick out unfamiliar players on the fly. With Schalke he knows the other players and can anticipate their movement.

Paris Saint-Germaine will be the big test of how serious the UEFA is with FFP. Their sponsorship is badly inflated and the Quatari company sponsoring them is headed by Laurent Platini (his father is head of UEFA). He got that post a few weeks after the World Cup 2022 was awarded to Quatar.

In the other half of the match Neuer again came out prematurely and didn't get the ball. Goalkeeping 101, if you abandon your line and come out you better get the ball. He's a great 'keeper so it was really strange to see two blatant, basic errors.

Problem with sanctioning PSG's deal is that Man City have something that looks very similar -- highly inflated and from a parent company.

Love seeing Milan take Chelsea's game plan and beat Barcelona. Thrilling match. For all the praise deservedly heaped on Barca, they only have one strategy. If it fails, they have no Plan B. We saw it against Chelsea and again against Milan.

It's a shame Shakhtar sold Willian. They looked magnificent in the group stage. But without Willian and playing their first match after the winter layoff, they didn't look themselves against Dortmund.

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

In the other half of the match Neuer again came out prematurely and didn't get the ball. Goalkeeping 101, if you abandon your line and come out you better get the ball. He's a great 'keeper so it was really strange to see two blatant, basic errors.

Problem with sanctioning PSG's deal is that Man City have something that looks very similar -- highly inflated and from a parent company.

Love seeing Milan take Chelsea's game plan and beat Barcelona. Thrilling match. For all the praise deservedly heaped on Barca, they only have one strategy. If it fails, they have no Plan B. We saw it against Chelsea and again against Milan.

It's a shame Shakhtar sold Willian. They looked magnificent in the group stage. But without Willian and playing their first match after the winter layoff, they didn't look themselves against Dortmund.

I can't remember any other howler, but I don't doubt that there was one. Bayern did play quite unusual against Arsenal. This could have added to it.

Milan didn't take Chelsea's game plan. Chelsea did play last ditch block and pray. Milan played hardcore catennaccio with a plan. They countered Messi brilliantly.
I have to agree that Barcelona have no Plan B. That's why I think that Bayern is a much more complete team. They can carry or combine the ball into the net, counter, play over the flanks, or directly to a focal point in the box. The last two options are seldom used or can't be used by Barcelona.

Not looking like themselves is depending on the team they play against. Bayern and Dortmund can make usually great teams look ordinary at times. Either through team play or individual brilliance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oKZbRHGPQI
Kroos 1-0 in the Bundesliga game against Dortmund. Hummels and Subotic are one of the best centerback pairing in the game and look ordinary there.

Shaktar is another team where FFP hopefully reduces spending a bit.

[wxwax]

Some interesting things about today's 3-1 Madrid win over Barca in the Copa.

First, Barcelona. I've felt since last season that Barca were burned out. Yes, they're running away with La Liga. But you could argue that's mostly because Madrid imploded.

Today Madrid defended deep, usually 9 or 10 men behind the ball, and they beat Barca on Mourinho's favorite play, the breakaway after a change of possession. It's not like Barca hasn't beaten deep defenses before. But in the last three series that count against deep defenses, they've lost. 2-3 aggregate against Chelsea, 2-4 aggregate against Madrid in the Copa and 0-2 in the first leg against Milan. More often than not, Messi has been missing in action.

The second leg against Milan is going to be very telling. If Barca lose series, people will start whispering about their decline. Perhaps unfair, given their managerial woes. But that's what people will do.

Second, Madrid. One of the reasons Jose Mourinho has supposedly lost his dressing room is because his Spanish players hate his simplistic, direct, defense-minded tactics. They want to play like their national team, beautiful football, blah, blah, blah. There are other problems too, but that's a big one.

You could see the trouble brewing every time Mourinho played Barca. He was constantly changing his tactics because his players hated sitting back.

Which brings us today. Their season a shambles, their clubhouse supposedly torn part by politics, Mourinho's players accepted Mourinho's preferred tactics, sat back, defended deep, sprinted past Barca's high line every time they got the ball. And they won.

It struck me as being a watershed moment. They embraced tactics they had previously hated. And it worked.

What that means for Manchester United on Tuesday is hard to guess. There's yet another clasico this weekend, a game which will test Mourinho and his squad's mental fortitude. Can Mourinho afford to do the logical thing and field a weak team?

If he does, if his squad accepts it, and if they sit deep against Manchester United, it could be the start of something wonderful on Mourinho's Last Stand.

[JNRobert]

All the great teams eventually run out of steam and Barcelona is no exception. Xavi and Puyol are at the end of their careers and Fabregas is no Xavi (yet). Villa's injury killed the idea of using him as an alternative - more traditional CF when Messi wasn't firing - and credit To Pep that he saw the problem which is why he bought Villa and that mountain of ego, Ibra.

The other problem with any team that has a truly great player like Messi, is that hubris sets in and Barcelona has the added hubris of their style. A style that gave us five tears of truly wonderous football (I know, I know, there's always some philistines who can't appreciate art when they see it).

Their management woes are not helping of course and if Tito had been there does anyone really think they'd have lost to Milan or Madrid? - Personally, I don't think so.

P.s. Chelsea is just an anomaly - a team owned by a sociopath who are undergoing their own decline.

P.p.s. the interesting question is will Munich be the next big thing in Europe assuming Barcelona's decline. Madrid will not fill the void particularly with Mourinho moving on.

[wxwax]

Originally Posted by JNRobert

P.s. Chelsea is just an anomaly - a team owned by a sociopath who are undergoing their own decline.

Rebirth, old boy. New, young players finding their way. Need some solidity in the pivot/holding role, maybe a center-back and a striker and away we go.

Not sure Tito would have made a difference. Barca struggled last season as well. Interestingly, in the last 8 clasicos Ronaldo has scored in 7 (Messi only 3, I believe) and has outscored Messi 9-4 (working from memory.) Ronaldo was rampant yesterday.

It will indeed be interesting to see how Bayern fare with Pep. One thing amuses me: he supposedly preferred the sanctuary of Munich to the turmoil of London. Yet Bayern is no stranger to upheaval and is home to a couple of arrogant, big-mouthed former players. Be careful what you wish for.

Madrid were terrific yesterday. Great fight, spirit, belief and chemistry. None of the defensive frailty that marked their first leg against Manchester United (completely different style of game, I know.) Raphael Varane and Sergio Ramos were an impressive pairing. I had favored ManU for the rematch, but now I'm not so sure. The team may have found something.

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

Rebirth, old boy. New, young players finding their way. Need some solidity in the pivot/holding role, maybe a center-back and a striker and away we go.

Not sure Tito would have made a difference. Barca struggled last season as well. Interestingly, in the last 8 clasicos Ronaldo has scored in 7 (Messi only 3, I believe) and has outscored Messi 9-4 (working from memory.) Ronaldo was rampant yesterday.

It will indeed be interesting to see how Bayern fare with Pep. One thing amuses me: he supposedly preferred the sanctuary of Munich to the turmoil of London. Yet Bayern is no stranger to upheaval and is home to a couple of arrogant, big-mouthed former players. Be careful what you wish for.

Madrid were terrific yesterday. Great fight, spirit, belief and chemistry. None of the defensive frailty that marked their first leg against Manchester United (completely different style of game, I know.) Raphael Varane and Sergio Ramos were an impressive pairing. I had favored ManU for the rematch, but now I'm not so sure. The team may have found something.

You need some continuity for rebuilding. Chelsea often seems to buy players for the sake of it and not because they fit the team. There is no vision what the play of the team should look like in 2 or 3 years.

Barca seems to be more predictable and thus defendable. It is not an absolute recent phenomen I think. Even the Champions League semi final showed their lack of a plan b against a tight (and lucky) defense.
I haven't seen Madrid play, but the highlights mentioned that they adopted the Milan gameplan.

Pep will not change much in the first season. It's not like there are wholesale changes necessary. Bayern plays successful and quite nice.

The game against Dortmund today showed that again. They had Dortmund scrambling the whole first half. Looked a bit like the game against (a much better version of) Arsenal.
Bayern sat back after their goal again, waiting for counters. They managed to keep Dortmund down to 8 shots, 1 on target.

[JNRobert]

Originally Posted by wxwax

Madrid were terrific yesterday. Great fight, spirit, belief and chemistry. None of the defensive frailty that marked their first leg against Manchester United (completely different style of game, I know.) Raphael Varane and Sergio Ramos were an impressive pairing. I had favored ManU for the rematch, but now I'm not so sure. The team may have found something.

Nothing would please me more than seeing Man U. knocked out, but Ferguson is too canny to put an attacking team on even at home, surely? I'm expecting a scoreless draw and United going through on the away goal. Unless Madrid score and then they have everything to play for.

Either way, this is not the Madrid team of Zidane, Figo and the original Ronaldo that beat Man U in 2003 (ironically, the last Madrid team that played like Barcelona ).

The Guardian newspaper heaped Beckham with praise for his starting debut against Marseille ("Pirlo like", which seems a little over the top). Barton was his usual yobbish self (what an odious dick he is).

[mancunian]

Man utd never play for the draw at home against anyone they would be booed off the pitch by their own fans.
It is just not in their DNA to just turn up, they will play football and try to score goals, if they loose it will be with dignity.

[wxwax]

Originally Posted by mancunian

Man utd never play for the draw at home against anyone they would be booed off the pitch by their own fans.
It is just not in their DNA to just turn up, they will play football and try to score goals, if they loose it will be with dignity.

I dunno what dignity is, winning is the only thing that matters, but I agree. ManU's strength is their attacking flair and it seems unlikely that Ferguson would switch to a style at which they're not nearly as good. They're a high octane team.

Gotta say, a scoreless draw seems the least likely outcome, with the quality of players on both sides and the way United play (and concede ).

[wxwax]

Originally Posted by ThePikeman

You need some continuity for rebuilding. Chelsea often seems to buy players for the sake of it and not because they fit the team. There is no vision what the play of the team should look like in 2 or 3 years.

Barca seems to be more predictable and thus defendable. It is not an absolute recent phenomen I think. Even the Champions League semi final showed their lack of a plan b against a tight (and lucky) defense.
I haven't seen Madrid play, but the highlights mentioned that they adopted the Milan gameplan.

I can't really disagree. The responsibility for buying players is opaque. We believe that Michael Emenalo is at least partly responsible, but we also believe there's at least one eminence grise behind the throne.

On the other hand, there's a prodigious amount of very young talent both on the senior squad and also out on loan and on the junior level. So the future is bright, as Chelsea have for years been buying young players in order to lessen their dependence on expensive purchases.

I'm amused at the number of people who insist that Chelsea were lucky to beat Barcelona over two legs and then beat Bayern Munich at home. Three consecutive matches of luck? Please.

So many of the people who go blah, blah, blah about "beautiful football" somehow fail to see the beauty of a difficult and well-planned strategy being executed at a high level. Chelsea were magnificent. Milan were magnificent. Madrid were magnificent.

Frankly, these people are stupid. They believe there's only one way to play and every team should play that way, regardless of whether or not it is in that team's self-interest. Ludicrous. You play to your strengths. You play to win.