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Old 10-20-2013, 12:11 PM   #766
ThePikeman
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Yes, you're right. But that's not argument against goal line technology. That's an argument in favor of developing offside technology.

If technology helps, use it. I'm surprised the Bundesliga isn't embracing goal line tech. It's pain-free, other than the initial cost. It's very quick, no stoppages. There's really no reason to oppose it.

I'd be all for offside technology, if it were possible to do it quickly and accurately. But it's not, at least not right now. And as we're seeing in cricket, the worst thing to do is install technology that isn't good enough or ready for the challenge. If you do that, people lose faith in it. And the whole thing is built on faith.

But goal line is good and ready, so everyone should use it who can afford to.
I wouldn't mind goalline technology. Would have been interesting, how this goal would have been registered from it. The goal was in the net after all. So the visual version would have probably registered an error and chipped ball version would depend on what happened with the ball right after the "goal", i.e. if it crossed the line during that time.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:25 PM   #767
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I wouldn't mind goalline technology. Would have been interesting, how this goal would have been registered from it. The goal was in the net after all. So the visual version would have probably registered an error and chipped ball version would depend on what happened with the ball right after the "goal", i.e. if it crossed the line during that time.
In the Premier League, the ref has a device on his arm which signals when a ball has crossed the goal line. He gets the signal within one second. In this case, the ref would not have received the signal and would have known that something was wrong.

I bet a Premier League ref would have been very confused in this situation. Whether he would allow a goal or not would probably depend on how much he trusted the technology. He has the power to overrule. It would have been an interesting test of the ref!
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:08 PM   #768
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In the Premier League, the ref has a device on his arm which signals when a ball has crossed the goal line. He gets the signal within one second. In this case, the ref would not have received the signal and would have known that something was wrong.

I bet a Premier League ref would have been very confused in this situation. Whether he would allow a goal or not would probably depend on how much he trusted the technology. He has the power to overrule. It would have been an interesting test of the ref!
Let's think it the other way... the ball leaves the net through the hole. So the device triggers, but the ball is definitely outside of the net.

The hole was the problem with this phantom goal. The ball was where it couldn't get without entering the goal mouth (that hole wasn't easily visible and maybe wasn't even there at the start of the half). Nobody was sure how it got there and Brych gave the goal.
Goalline technology is only really made if the question is, if the goal crossed the line, a ball in the net isn't really questionable.

I am paraphrasing Rudi Völlers (Leverkusen sporting director) comments. "After investing millions for the new stadium, the could have spared the money to buy some decent nets"
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:46 PM   #769
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Let's think it the other way... the ball leaves the net through the hole. So the device triggers, but the ball is definitely outside of the net.

The hole was the problem with this phantom goal. The ball was where it couldn't get without entering the goal mouth (that hole wasn't easily visible and maybe wasn't even there at the start of the half). Nobody was sure how it got there and Brych gave the goal.
Goalline technology is only really made if the question is, if the goal crossed the line, a ball in the net isn't really questionable.

I am paraphrasing Rudi Völlers (Leverkusen sporting director) comments. "After investing millions for the new stadium, the could have spared the money to buy some decent nets"
I understand the ref getting it wrong, although if players were telling him there was a problem perhaps he should have checked the net before going on with the game.

With goal line technology, the goal wouldn't have stood, in all likelihood. Your other situation, where a goal goes through the net and ends up outside, it happened last week in an international match and was correctly ruled a goal. Goal line technology would have gotten that one right as well.

Goal line costs money. But that's not an issue for a Bundesliga club. There's really no reason not to have it.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:32 AM   #770
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I understand the ref getting it wrong, although if players were telling him there was a problem perhaps he should have checked the net before going on with the game.

With goal line technology, the goal wouldn't have stood, in all likelihood. Your other situation, where a goal goes through the net and ends up outside, it happened last week in an international match and was correctly ruled a goal. Goal line technology would have gotten that one right as well.

Goal line costs money. But that's not an issue for a Bundesliga club. There's really no reason not to have it.
Why wouldn't it have stood? Would you overrule technology, if the ball is clearly in the back of the net?



This was a case for goalline technology. Kießlings goal was an absolute freak.

There probably won't be a new game. Fifa is quite adamant with fixed referee decisions and they have the last word. The DFB will not act against Fifa with these two teams involved and in this phase of the season.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:06 PM   #771
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Why wouldn't it have stood? Would you overrule technology, if the ball is clearly in the back of the net?



This was a case for goalline technology. Kießlings goal was an absolute freak.

There probably won't be a new game. Fifa is quite adamant with fixed referee decisions and they have the last word. The DFB will not act against Fifa with these two teams involved and in this phase of the season.
The goal by Leverkusen would not have been awarded in the Premier League because the referee would not have received a signal that the ball had crossed the line. Not receiving a signal would have instilled doubt in the ref's mind, doubt that would have been confirmed by Kiessling's immediate reaction.



The ref likely would have checked the net and had a word with the side judge.

We're now pretty deep into the season. All the Prem refs have been conditioned for their wrist alarm to go off when a goal is scored. If the alarm doesn't go off, they know something's wrong.

Now, it's possible that a ref wouldn't have faith in the system and would award a goal. Hawkeye is a new technology in football and it would be understandable if a ref had doubts about it.

However, I think there's an excellent chance the goal would not have been awarded in the prem.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:47 PM   #772
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However, I think there's an excellent chance the goal would not have been awarded in the prem.
Your assumption is that there would be an immediate dispute of the goal which would alert the ref. In the example above, only the scorer seems to be aware of what happened. No technology is infallible and unless the ref can go to fourth official who has access to the TV replay, why wouldn't he assume a fault with the technology?
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:40 PM   #773
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Your assumption is that there would be an immediate dispute of the goal which would alert the ref. In the example above, only the scorer seems to be aware of what happened. No technology is infallible and unless the ref can go to fourth official who has access to the TV replay, why wouldn't he assume a fault with the technology?
I thought I was clear. When the entire ball crosses the line in the Premier league, the ref gets a signal on a device he wears on his wrist.



In this case, the ref wouldn't have gotten a signal. Therefore, he would immediately know that something was wrong. That would be his first indication.

Additionally, he would have the confused response by the alleged goal scorer.

Now, is it possible he'd overrule Hawkeye? Yes, of course. The Premier League has only played 8 games this season. The technology is new to the refs. They should be used to it, because every single time a goal is scored their wrist device signals it.

But all review technology lives or dies on trust. Cricket has bungled its implementation and it's not trusted in that sport. It will take time for PL refs to fully trust Hawkeye.

So, to repeat myself from earlier posts, of course it's possible that a PL ref would award a goal.

However, I think it's more likely that he would take a moment to investigate. And it wouldn't take him long to find the hole in the net. Hoffenheim's subs found it without any trouble.

This time next year, no veteran PL ref would allow the goal. By then, he would have full confidence in Hawkeye, which is a proven technology with many years of service in tennis.
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wxwax screwed with this post 10-22-2013 at 02:42 PM
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:42 AM   #774
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Anyway, back to the football . . .

Arsenal are playing great soccer and their four against Norwich on the weekend are worth catching. Pick of the bunch is Wiltshire's and Arsenals first (very Barcelonesque) but all are sweet goals.

They play Klopp's Dortmund tonight which could be the match of the week. I like Klopp, he's an unusually intelligent man for football
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:38 PM   #775
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Anyway, back to the football . . .

Arsenal are playing great soccer and their four against Norwich on the weekend are worth catching. Pick of the bunch is Wiltshire's and Arsenals first (very Barcelonesque) but all are sweet goals.
That was a phenomenal goal. Just superb. Old Arsenal. As was today's result at home against Dortmund. It sounds like they missed Flamini (I couldn't watch the match. Fuck Fox for putting the best games on FS2, using us as leverage to get more carriage for their channel.) He's an unheralded new addition who has helped transform Arsenal, given them some spine in the middle.

Chelsea put in a solid, workman's performance in Germany. This team really isn't playing well yet. And still, they sit second in the Prem and lead their CL group. Can't wait until they gel going forward. Torres is looking good and Eto'o finally scored last weekend.

Defending set pieces feels like it'll be a problem all season, though. I think the problem is a lack of size. Also, one of Drogba's less-publicized skills was defending high balls into the box on set pieces. He was superb at winning them. He's missed.

One early goal off a corner, then two classic Mourinho breakaway goals. By the end Mourinho had 5 at the back (Ramires dropping back to help the left back) and 3 in front of them (Luiz, Lamps and Mikel.) Good game. Schalke fans are fantastic. In the last minute, down 0-3 at home, they were standing and singing.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:58 PM   #776
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That was a phenomenal goal. Just superb. Old Arsenal. As was today's result at home against Dortmund. It sounds like they missed Flamini (I couldn't watch the match. Fuck Fox for putting the best games on FS2, using us as leverage to get more carriage for their channel.) He's an unheralded new addition who has helped transform Arsenal, given them some spine in the middle.

Chelsea put in a solid, workman's performance in Germany. This team really isn't playing well yet. And still, they sit second in the Prem and lead their CL group. Can't wait until they gel going forward. Torres is looking good and Eto'o finally scored last weekend.

Defending set pieces feels like it'll be a problem all season, though. I think the problem is a lack of size. Also, one of Drogba's less-publicized skills was defending high balls into the box on set pieces. He was superb at winning them. He's missed.

One early goal off a corner, then two classic Mourinho breakaway goals. By the end Mourinho had 5 at the back (Ramires dropping back to help the left back) and 3 in front of them (Luiz, Lamps and Mikel.) Good game. Schalke fans are fantastic. In the last minute, down 0-3 at home, they were standing and singing.
Schalke fans are very adept at misery.
They are happy if their team tries its best. Never bet for or against them, they are unpredictable. They also miss some key players and the outfield players aren't experienced enough either. I don't think the average field player was over 24.


Dortmund has a wicked final 10 minutes.
The moment when they start to attack without abandon and the utter will to get a goal must me terrifying for any defender. Then they finish their counters cleanly and play them to the end. Somehow they often lack this directness and will in the middle stages of the game.
Arsenal is just lucky to concede the loosing goal this early.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:43 PM   #777
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Also, one of Drogba's less-publicized skills was defending high balls into the box on set pieces. He was superb at winning them. He's missed.
Now that you mention it, that's very true. Torres did well tonight but he got a little lucky on the second as he still has an horrendous first touch (how many Spanish players can you say that about). I love watching Eden Hazard though.

Messi once again saves Barcelona with a late goal to draw in Italy. Seems safe to say they should win the second leg at home.

I've been reading the reviews of Ferguson's autobiography - which reading between the lines seems slightly disingenuous and self serving, just like the real thing then Roy Keane is a sociopath and actually scared Ferguson. . . Which must have taken some doing. And weirdly, Wayne Rooney wanted Ferguson to sign Ozil before he went to Madrid. Rooney was advised to mind his own fucking business
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:15 PM   #778
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Zlatan's goal on Wednesday.

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Old 10-24-2013, 08:32 AM   #779
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Zlatan's goal on Wednesday.

>
I was going to post about my man Ibra, glad you put that up. His second was sweet too with a cheeky back hill. I hope Sweden beat Portugal for a place at the World Cup, he's a talent I love to watch in the big internationals.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:39 AM   #780
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So, in Fergie's book he says Gerrard or Lampard aren't top top players like Scholes or Keane. I would place them in the same bracket, would take Gerrard over all of them but rate Scholes on the same level. Scholes was a beast.
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