All things Automobile - THE definitive car thread

[Anorak]

Originally Posted by NDEBT

I bet Bueller can work on these. I cant. I get it but everytime I try to fix one these it kicks my ass.

You can't even spell epitrochoid.

[NDEBT]

Originally Posted by Anorak

You can't even spell epitrochoid.

I can now. Thanx.

[cogitate]

Question for the TDI fans:

One of my friends has a 2012 TDI. She told me today it has a shudder when it accelerates, and a lag. Her previous car was a Mazda 6, before that an Acura RDX. She knows how to drive well, and drives a lot.

The dealer told her all TDIs do that, she just needs to get used to it.

Anybody know if a shudder is normal? She says once up to speed it is fine. She is getting 35 mpg, I thought it should get better

[Anorak]

Originally Posted by NDEBT

I can now. Thanx.

That is the answer I was hoping for. Thank you.

[soldierguy]

Originally Posted by cogitate

Question for the TDI fans:

One of my friends has a 2012 TDI. She told me today it has a shudder when it accelerates, and a lag. Her previous car was a Mazda 6, before that an Acura RDX. She knows how to drive well, and drives a lot.

The dealer told her all TDIs do that, she just needs to get used to it.

Anybody know if a shudder is normal? She says once up to speed it is fine. She is getting 35 mpg, I thought it should get better

I used to have a '10 Golf TDI with the 6-speed manual and had no shudder. Not much detail in your post, but I'm assuming a low-speed shudder, like when she first lets off the brake at a stop light? If she's got the DSG transmission, I've heard complaints about shudders and lag coming off the line. Could be a programming thing. I'd have her go test drive a similar car and see what happens, as well as get the dealership to plug it in and make sure there aren't any stored codes, software & firmware are up to date, etc. Also, if after test driving a different one your friend believes hers isn't normal, she should have her service advisor ride with her to make sure they experience the issue. Early on there was a batch of questionable DSGs, but that was well before your friend's '12 TDI.

Turbo lag. In mine, just coming off the line I'd notice a small amount of turbo lag, but by 1500-1600 rpm the car was on boost and all was well. Wasn't noticeable in mine once I was moving. Again though, I had a manual, and I'd think a DSG would make lag feel worse because the computer is likely trying to get the car out of the clutch friction zone as quickly as possibly and with as few revs as possible to reduce wear and prevent heat buildup.

35 mpg sounds like it could be normal...keep in mind the EPA ratings (depending on transmission) are 30-31 city and somewhere between 40-42 highway. The new TDIs (09 and later) are very economical IF you stay out of boost and keep the revs low...drive anything other than very economically, and the mileage will be less than the older TDIs. I typically got high 30's in mine around town simply because I stayed out of heavy boost and tried to drive economically. Highway I'd see 42-45 mpg keeping my speeds in the 70-75 neighborhood, and averaged 50 on one tank of 65 mph freeway driving.

[ducnut]

^^^ In addition, I think I'd look to another dealer.

I'm not a fan of clutches/DSG/dual-clutch automatics, given modern traffic congestion.

[Bueller]

Originally Posted by NDEBT

I bet Bueller can work on these. I cant. I get it but everytime I try to fix one these it kicks my ass.

They are simplistic but fascinating engines. I've never been in one, but did see a couple of them apart because I worked at a huge multi-line dealer for almost 10 years and was friends with the Mazda techs. They typically did not rebuild them. Replacements from Mazda weren't all that expensive, certainly less than the short blocks from Mitsubishi.

Make sure you don't put conventional spark plugs in them

[cogitate]

Thanks for the info, will talk to her later. She said it is the low speed shudder, not sure of the transmission. Her last few cars were manual trans, perhaps she got the DSG. Will report back

Originally Posted by soldierguy

I used to have a '10 Golf TDI with the 6-speed manual and had no shudder. Not much detail in your post, but I'm assuming a low-speed shudder, like when she first lets off the brake at a stop light? If she's got the DSG transmission, I've heard complaints about shudders and lag coming off the line. Could be a programming thing. I'd have her go test drive a similar car and see what happens, as well as get the dealership to plug it in and make sure there aren't any stored codes, software & firmware are up to date, etc. Also, if after test driving a different one your friend believes hers isn't normal, she should have her service advisor ride with her to make sure they experience the issue. Early on there was a batch of questionable DSGs, but that was well before your friend's '12 TDI.

Turbo lag. In mine, just coming off the line I'd notice a small amount of turbo lag, but by 1500-1600 rpm the car was on boost and all was well. Wasn't noticeable in mine once I was moving. Again though, I had a manual, and I'd think a DSG would make lag feel worse because the computer is likely trying to get the car out of the clutch friction zone as quickly as possibly and with as few revs as possible to reduce wear and prevent heat buildup.

35 mpg sounds like it could be normal...keep in mind the EPA ratings (depending on transmission) are 30-31 city and somewhere between 40-42 highway. The new TDIs (09 and later) are very economical IF you stay out of boost and keep the revs low...drive anything other than very economically, and the mileage will be less than the older TDIs. I typically got high 30's in mine around town simply because I stayed out of heavy boost and tried to drive economically. Highway I'd see 42-45 mpg keeping my speeds in the 70-75 neighborhood, and averaged 50 on one tank of 65 mph freeway driving.

[NDEBT]

This is a cool thread. Pulling wrenches is a very hard way to make a living. You really need to want to do it to make it work. I think everyone at some time should work flat rate. It gives you a whole different look at work most will never get it.

[vtwin]

Originally Posted by NDEBT

This is a cool thread. Pulling wrenches is a very hard way to make a living. You really need to want to do it to make it work. I think everyone at some time should work flat rate. It gives you a whole different look at work most will never get it.

+1, one of the least thankful jobs and lowest paid of the crafts. You have to be a bodyman, detective, hvac specialist, doctor, upholsterer, weightlifter, electrician, etc. And no comebacks! Or you get to do it all over again for free.

[Ducky 149]

Originally Posted by NDEBT

This is a cool thread. Pulling wrenches is a very hard way to make a living. You really need to want to do it to make it work. I think everyone at some time should work flat rate. It gives you a whole different look at work most will never get it.

I have been on the line wrenching for 25 years. Started on SAAB then on to Volvo and now Audi. The biggest problem is the lack of pay advancement. Every year the book drops times, warrenties get longer. They cover more. Now there is prepaid maintenance that the factory takes the money up front and then pays you warrenty time to do the service. There is getting to be less and less greybeards around that actually know how to fix something vs. changing a part. The way it looks to me is that there is going to be 1 or 2 highly skilled technicians telling 8-12 kids what parts to change out. Techs getting maybe 50-60k and kids 25-30k. Future doesn't look very bright in this industry from where I am standing.
I overheard my service mgr one time ask the Volvo rep about kicking in some money on a XC90 trans job. They were GM transmissions and were all shitters. Car had 75k on the clock. Rep looks Mgr in the eye and asks..."At what point are the people going to assume ownership of this vehicle???" Car was 25k out of warrenty and had never been in for any CP work.

[NDEBT]

Originally Posted by Ducky 149

The way it looks to me is that there is going to be 1 or 2 highly skilled technicians telling 8-12 kids what parts to change out. Techs getting maybe 50-60k and kids 25-30k. Future doesn't look very bright in this industry from where I am standing.
.

I'm afraid we are there my friend My lead tech I pay for every flag hour the shop makes.That use to be my job I just can't do it all anymore. I push paper more than anything anymore.

[ducnut]

Originally Posted by NDEBT

I'm afraid we are there my friend My lead tech I pay for every flag hour the shop makes.That use to be my job I just can't do it all anymore. I push paper more than anything anymore.

What is a "flag hour"?

[Bueller]

Originally Posted by ducnut

What is a "flag hour"?

An hour flagged by a Tech. In other words, a billed hour of labor.

[Bueller]

Originally Posted by NDEBT

I'm afraid we are there my friend My lead tech I pay for every flag hour the shop makes.That use to be my job I just can't do it all anymore. I push paper more than anything anymore.

The business was headed there at the turn of the new millenium. Tech pay continues to drop, and the gap between vehicle complexity and Tech knowledge continues to grow. That is the reason why I continue to work on my own vehicles despite the physical pain and difficulty it causes me for days afterward.