tubeless on a twinshock tube type rim

oldyams · 01-04-2013, 03:36 PM

There is a discussion on trials central twinshock page about if you can run a tubeless rear tire on a twinshock rim with a tube. Some say it is impossible on a Yam TY as the tire will not stay seated at low psi. I am on my 2nd "hand me down" Michelin X-11's on my Ty250 twinshock and have never had any problem even psi. so low i can hardly get a reading. i normally run at 4 lbs
Anyone else have an opinion on this or am I missing something?

DerViking · 01-04-2013, 04:03 PM

Are you running it with a tube? Or trying to convert the rim to tubeless.

With a tube I imagine it would run fine. Add a rim lock if you have trouble.

oldyams · 01-04-2013, 04:58 PM

No They were not trying to make a tubeless rim out of a tube type but do to lack of tube type availability or what ever they asked about running a tubeless with a tube. That is what I had done only because I came up with a barn find and needed tires and a club member sold me his used set. I have not had any trouble but across the pond several say it just won't work on a Yam TY wheel twinshock or mono. I must be doing something wrong to make it work. Am I right?

Michelin X-11's are tubeless radials and X-1's are bias tubetype?

grizzzly · 01-04-2013, 05:08 PM

I have a tubless trials tire on my WR450 (tube type rim) and it is working fine (I have two rimlocks and a tube)

I think if you were to put a tube type tire on a tubless rim it might slip (no rimlock and the bead wont seat correctly and hold the tire in place but this is just a guess)

broncobowsher · 01-04-2013, 05:12 PM

I can say I have never mounted a TY rim, but I have done modern trials bikes. That rear tire is a tight fit. Stand around the corner when the bead seats scary tight. And that is with tire lube. It would take something mighty bad to knock the bead loose on a modern rim with no pressure. With that in mind running tubless on an old rim at low pressure I do see the posibility of knocking the bead off. But adding a tube (even in a tubeless tire) changes a lot. Providing you don't spin the tire on the rim (what rim locks are for) the tube will reseat the tire if you do manage to knock it loose. When doing tire testing (car testing for work) we will sometimes put in tubes in tubeless tires to keep the tires from rolling off the rims and the rims carving nasty grooves in the ground.

So if you are running a tube and a rim lock, I don't see any issues.
If the tire is a normal fit on the rim, you could have issues with just a tube when the tire spins on the rim, or if tubeless you could have issues with a bad side hit knocking the bead off.

PSchrauber · 01-04-2013, 05:37 PM

Mmmh ... with a tubeless tire, with a inner tube it works fairly.

At least with the Acront / Morad rims in my experience
Sometimes the rear tire dipps in a partial section, around 5mm.

This happends when I used very low air pressure but had no effect in riding so far.

When storing the bike in the garage I always fill the tires with 1 bar. When the tire has a partial dip
after a ride I fill up to 3 -4 bar and the dip disappear. I then let out the air again leaving 1 bar.

When going riding again I lower to 0,6 - 0,4 bar depending the ground conditions.

The aggrivation is worth the time as I'am very pleased with the grip and less weight.

lineaway · 01-04-2013, 06:16 PM

The english guys are just saying the Yamaha does not hold a bead. If your bike works no worries. Yeah my bead moves on my cota 200 also, but who cares. If I ran over 50 mph it would be a big deal, but 25 is about it most of the time. Most of those are posts from riders riding mud and water all day long! That might make the bead hold like S - - t!

PSchrauber · 01-04-2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lineaway

The english guys are just saying the Yamaha does not hold a bead. If your bike works there is no reason for this post. Yeah my bead moves on my cota 200 also, but who cares. If I ran over 50 mph it would be a big deal, but 25 is about it most of the time. Most of those are posts from riders riding mud and water all day long! That might make the bead hold like S - - t!

I believe your postings has an overambitious attitude, keep calm and radiate assurance!

The area where I live is sadly also called the jerry of god ... (just for your information).

And my english is surly not the best but believe it or not I can read too

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldyams

There is a discussion on trials central twinshock page about if you can run a tubeless rear tire on a twinshock rim with a tube. Some say it is impossible on a Yam TY as the tire will not stay seated at low psi. I am on my 2nd "hand me down" Michelin X-11's on my Ty250 twinshock and have never had any problem even psi. so low i can hardly get a reading. i normally run at 4 lbs
Anyone else have an opinion on this or am I missing something?

I believe it is a question about the outline of the rim bead and of course the shape of the rim inside,
this is a much younger rim, (not mine):

Btw. japanese rims, especially DID rims (shown above) are prone to corrosion as the aluminium has a high amount of copper
(for hardening the aluminium) which can lead to heavy corrosion in combination with the nipples of the spokes.

lineaway · 01-04-2013, 07:05 PM

Yes, I read the other posts. Been awhile since I had to deal with a jap rim. (I do have a matching set from a TY350 that I keep thinking what to do with) Did not mean the new guy harm. ( I did try to edit it after posting, but the computer at work does not cooperate!) Interesting to hear you get along with the X-lite so well! Always liked the SWM, never had one but won a trials on one after being off a bike for five years.

Ymirtrials · 01-05-2013, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSchrauber

Mmmh ... with a tubeless tire, with a inner tube it works fairly.

At least with the Acront / Morad rims in my experience
Sometimes the rear tire dipps in a partial section, around 5mm.

This happends when I used very low air pressure but had no effect in riding so far.

When storing the bike in the garage I always fill the tires with 1 bar. When the tire has a partial dip
after a ride I fill up to 3 -4 bar and the dip disappear. I then let out the air again leaving 1 bar.

When going riding again I lower to 0,6 - 0,4 bar depending the ground conditions.

The aggrivation is worth the time as I'am very pleased with the grip and less weight.

In about three months when the snow melts down enough to free my Bultaco from the shed I'm going to try your suggestions. With a second hand X lite on an acron rim I always end up with a section one one side of the tire sliding down from a proper seat......

Gordo83 · 01-06-2013, 07:04 AM

Has anyone here ever tried this system on a Twin Shock Trials Bike?

http://tubliss.com/

Will Hesch · 01-06-2013, 06:58 PM

I've got a T-Lock Concept for an 18" rear rim/tire and 21" front rim/tire which makes them tubeless and eliminates the beadlock http://www.t-lock.se/index.html

I'm selling the kit for $100, has everything necessary for installation and inflation, costs over $200 in Europe and about $50 shipping from Sweden.

Sting32 · 01-08-2013, 08:19 AM

I am NOT positive, but the difference from Tubeless tire and tube type, was almost nothing, but the "tolerances" were tightened up on tubeless MFG's processes, so that the lip/seal are closer per tire specs. Since the tires have to do holding and sealing, since we don't have rim-locks and such on tubeless rims.

I could be wrong. but MFG's have goofed. We had a run of the Chinese tires that wouldnt stay on new DID tubless rims either. so could be they have a bad batch of whatever tire they have been having problems with? I mean I have seen lots of people before, try the same thing over and over, with same exact results, without really ever trying a "different part" (aka batch).

I have newstyle used tubeless tires on my honda tl's, Suzuki rl, and yamaha TY's, soon to have one on the 2 Fantics. So far, Not seeing a problem, running them with tubes. but we're only "play" riding with them, not trying to ride the same lines as we do modern bikes either.

01-04-2013, 03:36 PM	#1
oldyams ^OP Adventurer Joined: Nov 2011 Location: Nebraska Oddometer: 10	tubeless on a twinshock tube type rim There is a discussion on trials central twinshock page about if you can run a tubeless rear tire on a twinshock rim with a tube. Some say it is impossible on a Yam TY as the tire will not stay seated at low psi. I am on my 2nd "hand me down" Michelin X-11's on my Ty250 twinshock and have never had any problem even psi. so low i can hardly get a reading. i normally run at 4 lbs Anyone else have an opinion on this or am I missing something?

01-04-2013, 04:03 PM	#2
DerViking Shred Joined: Mar 2006 Location: Black Bill Park Oddometer: 178	Are you running it with a tube? Or trying to convert the rim to tubeless. With a tube I imagine it would run fine. Add a rim lock if you have trouble. __________________ ATGATT: When you fall off your motorcycle, you will be wearing what you were when you got on your motorcycle. Dress accordingly.

01-04-2013, 05:08 PM	#4
grizzzly The Pre-Banned Version Joined: Apr 2007 Location: socorro NM Oddometer: 2,729	I have a tubless trials tire on my WR450 (tube type rim) and it is working fine (I have two rimlocks and a tube) I think if you were to put a tube type tire on a tubless rim it might slip (no rimlock and the bead wont seat correctly and hold the tire in place but this is just a guess) __________________ you actually expect people to take responsibility for their actions in today's society?!

01-04-2013, 06:16 PM	#7
lineaway Studly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2011 Location: nm Oddometer: 770	The english guys are just saying the Yamaha does not hold a bead. If your bike works no worries. Yeah my bead moves on my cota 200 also, but who cares. If I ran over 50 mph it would be a big deal, but 25 is about it most of the time. Most of those are posts from riders riding mud and water all day long! That might make the bead hold like S - - t! lineaway screwed with this post 01-04-2013 at 07:16 PM

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: .
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-04-2013, 04:58 PM	#3
oldyams ^OP Adventurer Joined: Nov 2011 Location: Nebraska Oddometer: 10	No They were not trying to make a tubeless rim out of a tube type but do to lack of tube type availability or what ever they asked about running a tubeless with a tube. That is what I had done only because I came up with a barn find and needed tires and a club member sold me his used set. I have not had any trouble but across the pond several say it just won't work on a Yam TY wheel twinshock or mono. I must be doing something wrong to make it work. Am I right? Michelin X-11's are tubeless radials and X-1's are bias tubetype?

01-04-2013, 05:12 PM	#5
broncobowsher Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Apr 2010 Oddometer: 447	I can say I have never mounted a TY rim, but I have done modern trials bikes. That rear tire is a tight fit. Stand around the corner when the bead seats scary tight. And that is with tire lube. It would take something mighty bad to knock the bead loose on a modern rim with no pressure. With that in mind running tubless on an old rim at low pressure I do see the posibility of knocking the bead off. But adding a tube (even in a tubeless tire) changes a lot. Providing you don't spin the tire on the rim (what rim locks are for) the tube will reseat the tire if you do manage to knock it loose. When doing tire testing (car testing for work) we will sometimes put in tubes in tubeless tires to keep the tires from rolling off the rims and the rims carving nasty grooves in the ground. So if you are running a tube and a rim lock, I don't see any issues. If the tire is a normal fit on the rim, you could have issues with just a tube when the tire spins on the rim, or if tubeless you could have issues with a bad side hit knocking the bead off.

01-04-2013, 05:37 PM	#6
PSchrauber Studly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2011 Location: Summer: Kemiö, Finland; Winter: North Germany Oddometer: 641	Mmmh ... with a tubeless tire, with a inner tube it works fairly. At least with the Acront / Morad rims in my experience Sometimes the rear tire dipps in a partial section, around 5mm. This happends when I used very low air pressure but had no effect in riding so far. When storing the bike in the garage I always fill the tires with 1 bar. When the tire has a partial dip after a ride I fill up to 3 -4 bar and the dip disappear. I then let out the air again leaving 1 bar. When going riding again I lower to 0,6 - 0,4 bar depending the ground conditions. The aggrivation is worth the time as I'am very pleased with the grip and less weight.

01-04-2013, 07:05 PM	#9
lineaway Studly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2011 Location: nm Oddometer: 770	Yes, I read the other posts. Been awhile since I had to deal with a jap rim. (I do have a matching set from a TY350 that I keep thinking what to do with) Did not mean the new guy harm. ( I did try to edit it after posting, but the computer at work does not cooperate!) Interesting to hear you get along with the X-lite so well! Always liked the SWM, never had one but won a trials on one after being off a bike for five years.

01-06-2013, 07:04 AM	#11
Gordo83 Adventurer Joined: Dec 2009 Location: New England Oddometer: 45	Has anyone here ever tried this system on a Twin Shock Trials Bike? http://tubliss.com/

01-06-2013, 06:58 PM	#12
Will Hesch Adventurer Joined: May 2012 Oddometer: 41	I've got a T-Lock Concept for an 18" rear rim/tire and 21" front rim/tire which makes them tubeless and eliminates the beadlock http://www.t-lock.se/index.html I'm selling the kit for $100, has everything necessary for installation and inflation, costs over $200 in Europe and about $50 shipping from Sweden.

01-08-2013, 08:19 AM	#13
Sting32 Trails Evangelist Joined: Oct 2009 Location: Minneapolis, Ks Oddometer: 963	I am NOT positive, but the difference from Tubeless tire and tube type, was almost nothing, but the "tolerances" were tightened up on tubeless MFG's processes, so that the lip/seal are closer per tire specs. Since the tires have to do holding and sealing, since we don't have rim-locks and such on tubeless rims. I could be wrong. but MFG's have goofed. We had a run of the Chinese tires that wouldnt stay on new DID tubless rims either. so could be they have a bad batch of whatever tire they have been having problems with? I mean I have seen lots of people before, try the same thing over and over, with same exact results, without really ever trying a "different part" (aka batch). I have newstyle used tubeless tires on my honda tl's, Suzuki rl, and yamaha TY's, soon to have one on the 2 Fantics. So far, Not seeing a problem, running them with tubes. but we're only "play" riding with them, not trying to ride the same lines as we do modern bikes either.