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Old 01-05-2013, 02:18 PM   #1
MC_Collector OP
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R1100GS Stranded in Southern Mexico --HELP!!!

I got a call from my friend Donnie, (dwj- Donnie here), this morning looking for help diagnosing his bike:

1995 R1100GS ~100,000 miles running fine until he stopped for fuel. Went ~ 1 mile after refueling and it shut off as if the key had turned off! f

It would occasionally fire when he tried to start it, but nothing resembling running right. He advised there was spark at a plug that was checked

The first thing that came to my mind was bad fuel or water in the fuel. I suggested draining the fuel and checking for water and maybe replacing the fuel it for good measure. He advised there was a little water in it and several mechanics have been trying to help, but what I suggested made no or little difference. He advised there is spark and the injectors spray when turning it over. They have checking and cleaned electrical connectors including the kill switch and have been able to get it to run for a few seconds seemingly OK, but it is unknown whether this was on it's own or after fuel got poured into the intake.

He asked me to put this out there and see if anyone had similar symptoms with a hall effect sensor failure on one of these? Maybe some other related gremlin? I haven't investigated the boxer EFI and ignition systems at all, but it would be much appreciated if someone who has could chime in with some advice for Donnie. He said there is some Internet access where he will stay and should be able to fill in the gaps I have probably left here tonight

FWIW the RH head gasket and cam chain guides were replaced ~2,000 miles ago, but it has run perfectly since (until now!).

Thanks,
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:20 PM   #2
RomaDakota
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #3
Gezerbike
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I agree that the first and easiest look see would be to swap out the fuel. That it was running fine before fueling says something to me.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:38 PM   #4
strsout
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When the bike dies, there is still electrical functionality? (lighs, RID, breaks, etc). When push the start, it turns the engine right?

I'm experiencing similar issues (vide post on this forum) and looks like the problem will end up being the Hall Sensor.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:53 PM   #5
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Question Details

It is getting

Spark

Fuel - from the injectors.

----------------------
Then it needs air in and out ...
compression
Valves opening and closing at the right time
free inlet and outlet.

======================
Unless the information lacks detail about the spark and fuel then it is NOT the HES.... I suspect the information is lacking detail ... making it impossible to tell what is wrong.

So tell us more?
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:33 PM   #6
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Thanks to all for the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gezerbike View Post
I agree that the first and easiest look see would be to swap out the fuel. That it was running fine before fueling says something to me.
That was done and It didn't change anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by strsout View Post
When the bike dies, there is still electrical functionality? (lighs, RID, breaks, etc). When push the start, it turns the engine right?

I'm experiencing similar issues (vide post on this forum) and looks like the problem will end up being the Hall Sensor.
As I understand everything electrical functions except the engine doesn't start when the starter turns it over

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
It is getting

Spark

Fuel - from the injectors.

----------------------
Then it needs air in and out ...
compression
Valves opening and closing at the right time
free inlet and outlet.

======================
Unless the information lacks detail about the spark and fuel then it is NOT the HES.... I suspect the information is lacking detail ... making it impossible to tell what is wrong.

So tell us more?
I spoke to him some more this afternoon and I actually heard the bike running over the cell phone. They had gone into the front and looked at the hall effect sensor and found the wires had been nicked by the belt but not broken they got taped up. Later it was learned it would crank up and run with the throttle position sensor disconnected. I heard that over the phone too, but don't know how well. Apparently the pulley didn't get put back tight enough and it came loose and may have damaged the hall effect sensor and it doesn't run now.

Not good.... Ideas??
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:44 PM   #7
slartidbartfast
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Sounds familiar - The "$2000 and bike still not running" thread from a couple of months back turned out to be due to the pulley not being reassembled properly. Sounds like sending a new/rebuilt hall sensor plate and a used TPS might be the best solution (will be one on eBay right now I'm sure) - and make damned sure the lower pulley is put back on properly.

If your buddy is sure the HS or HS wiring is damaged, then there's nothing to lose by pulling it all apart again - If the sensor itself is not hosed, a bit of careful repair work might bodge it up well enough to get him moving again.

Don't rule out bad fuel (water in fuel?) - as a failure within a mile of leaving a gas station is a pretty big coincidence - and it's not unheard of in that part of the world.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:02 PM   #8
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Thanks for the reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
Sounds familiar - The "$2000 and bike still not running" thread from a couple of months back turned out to be due to the pulley not being reassembled properly. Sounds like sending a new/rebuilt hall sensor plate and a used TPS might be the best solution (will be one on eBay right now I'm sure) - and make damned sure the lower pulley is put back on properly.

If your buddy is sure the HS or HS wiring is damaged, then there's nothing to lose by pulling it all apart again - If the sensor itself is not hosed, a bit of careful repair work might bodge it up well enough to get him moving again.

Don't rule out bad fuel (water in fuel?) - as a failure within a mile of leaving a gas station is a pretty big coincidence - and it's not unheard of in that part of the world.

I think they patched the hall sensor, but the thing still won't run above idle. They're going to replace the fuel filter tomorrow.. He stated some brown muck came out of the tank when they dumped the tank out. If that doesn't help I'm sure he'll be figuring how to get a used TPS to him in MX. I also found one at another place. Maybe one will still be around if needed. The new parts prices are appalling!
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:29 PM   #9
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Just in case, have him check for a rag in the tailpipe... Someone at the gas station may have had a thing against bikers and shoved one in there. This was done to my Buell once, my exhaust pissed of my neighbors a bit and it had very similar symptoms.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shango View Post
Just in case, have him check for a rag in the tailpipe... Someone at the gas station may have had a thing against bikers and shoved one in there. This was done to my Buell once, my exhaust pissed of my neighbors a bit and it had very similar symptoms.
Sorry in advance, but Dam that is funny

My neighbor has a straight pipe screaming chicken exhaust on his hardly able-son and believes that makes him a safer rider than me on my GSA (Ok he may be right as he rides much slower than I). But I would never in my wildest dreams consider capping his noise maker, but dam funny none the less.
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:43 PM   #11
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Hi Dusty, Donnie returned my call.
Spoke with him and he said tomorrow around 10am they are going to go at it again and change the filter.
It appears he is in the northeast of Oaxaca in Maria Lombardo de Casso on #147 just over the Veracruz state line on the Rio Trinidad and is southwest of Acayucan, Veracruz.
I hope to reach Raphael Lago of Motopits here in Veracruz and get his take on things tomorrow in the morning.
If Raphael has parts I might be able to send them via Multipack unless I can find someone heading in that direction.
The earliest I can ride the parts over to him, if what he needs can be sourced here, would be Tuesday in the late AM as I have been looking after my folks who are visiting.
I know that Raphael has some Bosch part numbers for fuel pumps that supposedly cross reference for some BMW pumps and he might be able to source that nearby.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:33 PM   #12
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Thanks! I needed a laugh and some good news in this....

FOTFL !!!I'd have never thought of that. Donnie's bike IS too loud when it runs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shango View Post
Just in case, have him check for a rag in the tailpipe... Someone at the gas station may have had a thing against bikers and shoved one in there. This was done to my Buell once, my exhaust pissed of my neighbors a bit and it had very similar symptoms.

+1 FOTFL !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluByU View Post
Sorry in advance, but Dam that is funny

My neighbor has a straight pipe screaming chicken exhaust on his hardly able-son and believes that makes him a safer rider than me on my GSA (Ok he may be right as he rides much slower than I). But I would never in my wildest dreams consider capping his noise maker, but dam funny none the less.
Good news Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
Hi Dusty, Donnie returned my call.
Spoke with him and he said tomorrow around 10am they are going to go at it again and change the filter.
It appears he is in the northeast of Oaxaca in Maria Lombardo de Casso on #147 just over the Veracruz state line on the Rio Trinidad and is southwest of Acayucan, Veracruz.
I hope to reach Raphael Lago of Motopits here in Veracruz and get his take on things tomorrow in the morning.
If Raphael has parts I might be able to send them via Multipack unless I can find someone heading in that direction.
The earliest I can ride the parts over to him, if what he needs can be sourced here, would be Tuesday in the late AM as I have been looking after my folks who are visiting.
I know that Raphael has some Bosch part numbers for fuel pumps that supposedly cross reference for some BMW pumps and he might be able to source that nearby.
Maybe it will just be a pluggged filter...
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:38 AM   #13
dwj - Donnie
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Thanks for all the help and comments! The plastic coating was skinned off a small piece on two or three wires when the pulley come off, the actual wires were not damages. The valves have clearance have been checked, they do no have feeler gages, but the correct amount of gap was felt, mas o menos! We will change the fuel filter in a little while and check the operation of the fuel pump. If the fuel filter gives proper pressure, it would seem unlikely that it and the Throttle Position Sensor would fail at the same time. But, I am certainly no mechanic. One thing we all agreeded on when it would have trouble starting, it seem to not be getting enough gas. I will we know a bit more later. Thanks again!
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:21 AM   #14
dwj - Donnie
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It is running!!! It seems that the problem all along wast the water in the gas, but before the gas was replaced a couple of problems were created in searching for the problem! I should be leaving town within the hour!
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:49 AM   #15
Gezerbike
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That's great Donnie. Did I win anything ?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Gezerbike View Post
I agree that the first and easiest look see would be to swap out the fuel. That it was running fine before fueling says something to me.
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