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Old 01-16-2013, 12:24 PM   #196
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damonk45 View Post
yes we did.
Freedom comes at a cost,
we gave up some of ours to keep yours

thank you!
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:17 PM   #197
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I chalk most of what I am today at my ability to dodge a flaming tennis ball!
If you can dodge a flaming tennis ball you can dodge a cager!!
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:57 PM   #198
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Pissed Not that there's anything wrong w/ that...

Quote:
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I chalk most of what I am today at my ability to dodge a flaming tennis ball!

So you are openly declaring yourself a flaming tennis ball dodger??
.
.
.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:38 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Dekatria View Post
As per this coming saturday, things are changing though - there are now going to be three kinds of licenses you can obtain; pre-light, light and heavy. if you are 18, you are only allowed to ride pre-light. This is a license for <11kW (or 125cc) motorbikes. If you're 21, you can go for the 250cc license, and if you're 24 you can go for heavy (22 if you already have either the pre-light or light license). The fear is now this will put alot of youngsters (and new riders) off motorcycles.
This is the standard in Germany for a long time, I think also in Spain. What puts kids off of the 125s here in Germany is the insurance cost. Most kids wait until they are old enough to do the A2 (>125, <37hp), because it costs so much less to insure the 250.

The issue is that the EU is trying to standardize the licenses from country to country. So some get more restrictions, some get less. The Germans are freaking out because you can no longer get a free up from A2 to A3 after two years like you used to.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:34 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekatria View Post
As per this coming saturday, things are changing though - there are now going to be three kinds of licenses you can obtain; pre-light, light and heavy. if you are 18, you are only allowed to ride pre-light. This is a license for <11kW (or 125cc) motorbikes. If you're 21, you can go for the 250cc license, and if you're 24 you can go for heavy (22 if you already have either the pre-light or light license). The fear is now this will put alot of youngsters (and new riders) off motorcycles.
Presumably this ends your current (or perhaps, previous) situation in NL, whereby users of small capacity motorcycles (scooters, really) were able to ride in Cycle Lanes, seemingly without legally being required to wear helmets?
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:46 AM   #201
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That's for MoFa (mopeds) and I think that will still be legal as that license is not changing.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
The Germans are freaking out because you can no longer get a free up from A2 to A3 after two years like you used to.
On the positive side we're freaking out because of the restriction goes up from 34hp to 48hp with A2. Speculating about how many of us won't ever get A because A2 might be just enough for them - and speculating about if that was the original intention of the law.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:09 AM   #203
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Tiered licensing is for sheeple that are too incompetent to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions, IMO
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:33 AM   #204
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I think you'd be surprised, DAKEZ, if you looked into what tiered licensing does in Europe. While the insurance on a 125 is ridiculous in Germany, it's dirt cheap in Spain. Hence the Spanish guys are perfectly content with an A1 (125) license and have much less desire to go for the big bikes. Additionally, it heavily influences scooter ridership - moving up to a 125 scooter is a big deal (from a 50) and you can handle 99.9% of your needs with a 125 scooter, so nearly everyone goes for the license. You have some ridiculous level of permits there, and an equally ridiculous level of riders.

In Germany, everyone wants the A3 (formerly A(u)) so they can rent (or buy) a GSA for holiday trips or get a Sportster. It encourages München to build big bikes.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:00 AM   #205
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I am of the opinion that a person should not be dictated to as to what bike he/she should be able to purchase and ride and should take it upon themselves as to how to manage it safely.

I am not saying "Don't start small" for many if not most that would be wise... I am saying that it should be left up to the individual to decide what is right for him/her.

Example: A Large thinking human should not be corralled into starting on a motorcycle that is ridiculously small for him/her.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:10 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by LuciferMutt View Post
Younger people don't have the income to buy these things anymore.
I think you mean the parents of 20-somethings still living at home don't have the money...
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:14 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
I think you'd be surprised, DAKEZ, if you looked into what tiered licensing does in Europe. While the insurance on a 125 is ridiculous in Germany, it's dirt cheap in Spain. Hence the Spanish guys are perfectly content with an A1 (125) license and have much less desire to go for the big bikes. Additionally, it heavily influences scooter ridership - moving up to a 125 scooter is a big deal (from a 50) and you can handle 99.9% of your needs with a 125 scooter, so nearly everyone goes for the license. You have some ridiculous level of permits there, and an equally ridiculous level of riders.

In Germany, everyone wants the A3 (formerly A(u)) so they can rent (or buy) a GSA for holiday trips or get a Sportster. It encourages München to build big bikes.
Conversely, the particularly draconian and expensive tiered licencing system in Japan was what made 400cc sportsbikes a legitimate 'class' of bike there in the early-mid 90s.

I came close to buying 'Busa as my first bike. I kid you not; I took the licencing necessary to do so right off the bat. With hindsight, that is just the sort of stupid decision 23 year olds make. Would it have helped if the law had intervened and made me ride a smaller bike? Not in my case; the exorbitant cost of insurance, sensible/honest good soul* who owned the local bike shop and my own sense of self-preservation were enough to prevent that bad decision. There might be some people who'd make the choice differently, but I generally come down on the side of the fence that we're better off with them those people out of the gene pool.

"The problem with making things idiot-proof is that idiots are so inventive;they will always find new ways to fuck something up and hurt themselves."

*Perhaps I'm being overly generous and he was acting in long-term self interest: I went to him to buy a big bang R1 last year. Doubt he'd have gotten the chance to make that sale if I'd gotten a Busa instead.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:36 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by HelmetHead Cycle View Post
I honestly believe the motorcycle industry is doomed, perhaps within the next few generations. If you look at the people who ride, you will notice there are fewer and fewer young people.
You're hanging out with the wrong crowd, or simply not riding the twisties.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:36 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceri JC View Post
Presumably this ends your current (or perhaps, previous) situation in NL, whereby users of small capacity motorcycles (scooters, really) were able to ride in Cycle Lanes, seemingly without legally being required to wear helmets?
Helmets are compulsory for everything above 50cc as far's I know, always have been. Even with mopeds riding without is illegal here.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #210
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I was only flaming if I got hit by one, and then I would do my best to extinguish the flaming! I really wish it was an Olympic sport. I've always wanted a gold medal.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGSROOT View Post
So you are openly declaring yourself a flaming tennis ball dodger??
.
.
.
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