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Old 01-08-2013, 09:27 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ceri JC View Post
Oh I'm not contesting that if they were banned, the price would go up..
I wasn't referring to them being banned, just reduced availability or even higher cost of new vehicles makes the value of used go up


back in 76 I bought a brand new Chevy Luv pickup for $3200 a year or so later, the US added tariffs that increased the cost dramaticly 2 years later it was totaled in an accident, my insurance company paid out $4500
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:16 PM   #62
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I agree with the other inmates who commented that younger people are priced out of the market. The cost of living has skyrocketed over the past 20-30 years and the relative earning power of the young, unmarried male is a fraction of what it used to be. I am in my early thirties and have not forgotten what a struggle my twenties were.

I also remember what a top of the line sportbike used to cost, and would never pay >$10,000 for a new 600cc superSPORT.

There are so many used bikes out there with low miles, at decent prices....

Only people who are established enough to afford high dollar toys are buying brand new bikes.....or people who have not learned the true penalty of credit

As far as the concept of sport each his own. The way some of you bastards drag your butts into work in the morning before your cup of coffee tells me that not only is riding/driving not a sport to you, its not even something you waste any conscious thought on. But maybe you can meet me out on the trail one day, after trying to keep up with a pack of better riders winding through just 5 minutes of gnarly single track, and tell me then that it isn't a sport.

And when that is said and done, come for a drive home with me on a Friday afternoon during rush hour in NJ, and tell me commuting isn't a sport



It's not only a sport, its a BLOOD sport. Ask the people who peeled the corpses out of yet another fatal accident on Route 1 today. You can play it many different ways but you wager your life just the same. With those stakes, I call it a sport, even for those who resent every moment of it.

Do you think Frogger believed he was playing a sport
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:53 PM   #63
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Seems to me that back in 1978 I was working one full time and one part time job because tuition, rent, insurance, gas and food were all crazy expensive. Sure looking back it all seems cheap until you factor in making $3.00/hour. I couldn't afford full coverage on a car so I had to drive a beater I paid cash for.

Which is 100% of why I bought a new but cheap bike. That new KE125 was cheapest bike at the dealer, insurance was cheap, it had a warranty, it used very little gas, it was reliable and it was fun. That meant I could get to work and school when my truck was broken or I was broke plus even raise a little hell.

But then SC has a bike friendly climate so having a bike as commuter was easy enough. The point is I don't really think kids today have to struggle any more or less than I did 35 years ago. I couldn't afford a nice car or bike, gas and insurance either. I made do by buying a cheap new bike and a beater truck.

Which is why I like seeing some cheap but decent bikes hitting showrooms again. Nobody wants to look like they are on a budget bike.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:46 PM   #64
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I never stop educating my friends and coworker about how much better biking is compared to their so called vacations...

Their vacations:
fight traffic saturday morning or sunday evening to get to/out of the same damn cottage every summer, with same lake, same people. 100$ per day motel or so. Or waste 800$ a head to fly to some stupid beach hotel to roast 60 minutes waiting in line to do a 4 minutes waterskying loop, get drunk or read while it rains. 8 borings days for 3000$.

My vacations:
sunrises, sunsets, constant feel and smell of the nature. experiencing wind, rains, fog, heat, all stimulating my senses. never seeing the same thing twice. discovering people, historic sites, seeing animals, rare geologic stuff, caves, incredible landscapes, etc. Almost never waiting for anything. Freedom. Improvisation. 50$ per night motels. 8 exciting filled days for 800$

If only I had been told this 15 years earlier...

Just tell people, they will understand quickly, and jealousy is a good incentive! Motorcycling will not be doomed. Force them to try, they just dont know better because it is not in their cell phone, or it doesnt come from a social nw.

Oh, and sport = sweat. Simple.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:05 PM   #65
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What dddd said.

Dollar for dollar, motorcycles are the BEST way to have a good time, when compared to other motorized recreational activities. And the icing on the cake?--You can even use it in your day-to-day life. The image of motorcycling to non-riders is that bikes are "just toys", because for so many motorcycle owners, that's absolutely true.

But for me, motorcycling is a sport, even if the only competition is my own level of proficiency. But on some days, it can also be a relaxing hobby. That's what's so great about it to me.

Call my bike a mere "toy" if you want... Some people prefer golfing, RV's, boats, and stress-inducing "vacations"... I prefer something that challenges me and is integrated into my daily life. Also, I don't eat at restaurants, and my driving record is nearly perfect... Boom, motorcycling is paid for.

I'm no economist, but it seems to me that "excessive luxury" type items will see there demise long before motorcycles will.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:15 PM   #66
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What those two guys said ^^^^

I bought my first bike when I was 24, 3 years later I'm on bike 6. Anyone who thinks motorcycling isn't a sport should come ride some single track in the Southwest. I've done a lot of competitive sports from triathlons, ski racing, cycling, football, and soccer but none of them are near as exhausting as riding a dirt bike. Surfing is the only thing i've done that is equal.

To the guy who was trying to say driving wasn't a sport. Seriously dude? Only if you have a milk toast attitude towards life i guess....
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure

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Old 01-08-2013, 07:29 PM   #67
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In other places...

Maybe not doomed in places like Asia. Here, a typical weekday in Bangkok:
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #68
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I'm just broke. Anyone wanna buy a plated xr650r?
Sent from portable brain.

zeroblah screwed with this post 01-08-2013 at 10:11 PM
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:21 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
there are plenty of new young riders, right now they are just being outpaced by older middle-age crisis buyers. In the past few years, this has increased the median age of riders, now that the baby boomers are passing middle age, the number of middle age first time buyers is dropping, things are just getting back to normal

motorcycles will not go away any quicker than the automobile
My thoughts exactly.

As an aside, I have only bought one motorcycle new, and that was my second bike. (in '96) I just can't justify paying $20k on a bike I only use 7 or 8 months of the year.
Originally Posted by dogjaw
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:34 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Nadgett View Post
Hah! Next somebody will be trying to tell us bowling isn't a sport.
According to George Carlin, bowling isn't a sport because you have to rent the shoes.
Originally Posted by dogjaw
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:35 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by phoenixdoglover View Post
Maybe not doomed in places like Asia. Here, a typical weekday in Bangkok:

Yeah except there you get run over by some and left in the street for dead.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:55 AM   #72
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Consider that a lot of younger people are buying their first bike used from a person they were connected with through craigslist, whereas the older crowd has the means to use the dealership. I bet JD Power (referred to in OP) is getting their data from dealer sales. Seems that older people in general are more reluctant to use craigslist.

When the younger crowd gets older, less patient with the problems of owning an unknown used bike, actually desires having a warranty and maintainence plan, well, then they might make the shift back to the dealer.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:06 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Sticky Throttle View Post
Yep, ya got me. I see your point. I would never buy a Maserati or a Ferrari sports car for the sport of it. They're clearly utilitarian vehicles for transportation only. What would "sport" have to do with driving a sports car like... a SPORTS CAR?

Dude, what was I thinking?!
Sport is, inherently, trivial. Not necessary. Maybe people think calling it a "sport" makes them cool. Whatever.

Is motorbiking trivial, to you? Then why use a word to describe it that relegates it to the trivial? In an age where the nonessential must be cut from most budgets, I think defining motorcycling as trivial isn't what people intend.

It isn't to me - it is my chosen form of transportation and it is every bit as legitimate a mode of transportation as driving a car.

The widespread notion of motorbikes as toys and not as transportation, however, certainly must cut into the 18-29 age bracket's new bike sales. If bikes are a toy, they have to have a car, first. Employment blows in that age range and isn't likely to improve quickly. The 30-39 age bracket is just old enough to listen to the "motorbikes are unsafe" message, but are a bit more capable of plonking down for a new bike.

Regardless, motorbikes aren't going anywhere. They aren't going to be as prevalent in the US as they are elsewhere, either.

Originally Posted by Slaghammer View Post
One small step in the right direction would be for the magazine writers to stop referring to perfectly good smaller, affordable bikes as " entry level " or " beginners bikes "

.I get really tired of seeing comments like that and wonder how many sales are lost because of " image " perception that is unfortunately so important these days ?
Indeed, the stupid bike rags slagging on the more sensible or less insane bikes aren't helping.
--Semantics are everything.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:43 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
According to George Carlin, bowling isn't a sport because you have to rent the shoes.
I hope George Carlin doesn't have anything to say about Santa Claus.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:08 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by ph0rk View Post
Sport is, inherently, trivial. Not necessary. Maybe people think calling it a "sport" makes them cool. Whatever.

Is motorbiking trivial, to you? Then why use a word to describe it that relegates it to the trivial? ...
Sorry, I'm trying to understand your point but have no idea where "trivial" came from in the definition of sport, or where that term applies to something that's a passion/sport for many here.
Sport [spawrt, spohrt] noun athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
2.a particular form of this, especially in the out of doors.
3.diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime.
4.jest; fun; mirth; pleasantry: What he said in sport was taken seriously.
5.mockery; ridicule; derision: They made sport of him.

My points were and still are:

1. Motorcycling doesn't have to be racing to be a sport; a spirited track-day ride, dual-sporting to Alaska, or bettering your skills for more than just transportation can be sport.
2. Not being a racer (past or present) doesn't automatically make one a poseur.

Oh, and BTW, apologies to the OP and others for the hijack. Perhaps this subject deserves its own thread.
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Sticky Throttle screwed with this post 01-09-2013 at 08:28 AM Reason: Apology for hijack
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