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Old 09-13-2013, 07:36 AM   #931
CaptnJim
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Originally Posted by samthg View Post
I called a dealer here in So. Cal. yesterday to see if they had one, no way I was told, there too hot. Without me asking, he did tell me they are $4300 o.t.d..
Now, if anyone had any question about "those poor dealers" and the MADE UP fees...



Someone will inevitably bring up "supply & demand"... which I will counter with "taking advantage" (aka: sticking to those who allow it). This type of pricing tactic will cool off sales. The public perception quickly becomes: "Oh, you bought one of those overpriced little bikes," and so it goes.

When I earlier said, "I hope Honda sells a bunch of 'em," I didn't mean so the dealers can try to fleece the eager buying public.

One bike... a half dozen eager buyers... "Hey, buyer, who will give me the most for this little bike?" It is to the dealers' advantage to keep the supply low and the price high... more profit (and less effort) in selling one bike for 40% OVER MSRP than selling a half dozen of them for the manufacturer's suggested retail price. Which model puts more bikes out there and makes the public more aware, which makes for more buyers, etc?

I'm not sure creating buyer resentment is a good long-term sales tactic.

Those who have 'em, enjoy 'em!

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Old 09-13-2013, 07:50 AM   #932
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Originally Posted by samthg View Post
I called a dealer here in So. Cal. yesterday to see if they had one, no way I was told, there too hot. Without me asking, he did tell me they are $4300 o.t.d..
All I can say is that I didn't and wouldn't have paid this much for it. Not even close. Yes my dealer charged me all the fees but it came out to just about $3,600. It's still high IMO but I wanted it. Buying a bike is always an emotional purchase. That's how dealers get us.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:04 AM   #933
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$3600 sounds about right in California

$3000 for Grom
$ 300 for Honda's "destination" fee
$ 250 for tax
$ 200 for DMV and assorted fees
$3750 for Grom

thats a "give or take" estimate but its pretty much by the numbers once you add 'em up. let the dealer get away with "prep" and "freight" and "doc fees" and that is likely the $4300 amount being quoted some places

i'd pay $3600, sure. its the same amount of some quality 150cc scooters so fair is fair
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Old 09-13-2013, 09:49 AM   #934
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Originally Posted by CaptnJim View Post
Now, if anyone had any question about "those poor dealers" and the MADE UP fees...



Someone will inevitably bring up "supply & demand"... which I will counter with "taking advantage" (aka: sticking to those who allow it). This type of pricing tactic will cool off sales. The public perception quickly becomes: "Oh, you bought one of those overpriced little bikes," and so it goes.

When I earlier said, "I hope Honda sells a bunch of 'em," I didn't mean so the dealers can try to fleece the eager buying public.

One bike... a half dozen eager buyers... "Hey, buyer, who will give me the most for this little bike?" It is to the dealers' advantage to keep the supply low and the price high... more profit (and less effort) in selling one bike for 40% OVER MSRP than selling a half dozen of them for the manufacturer's suggested retail price. Which model puts more bikes out there and makes the public more aware, which makes for more buyers, etc?

I'm not sure creating buyer resentment is a good long-term sales tactic.

Those who have 'em, enjoy 'em!

Captain Jim
Jim- I appreciate your point; we've all experienced this. That said virtually everything in this country is market priced based on what the market is willing to pay.

Early adopters know this, and the exclusivity of being the first on the block with the new (insert here) offsets the premium paid for a scarce product. Let's face it, Groms aren't a need, they are a want, and Honda has eaten tons of bikes that they went to great expense to certify, DOT, import and couldn't sell so they dump them off at huge discounts.

While it sometimes pisses me off too (I still won't walk into a Honda car dealership after I tried to buy an Accord back in the 70's and found they were charging above retail for them) I appreciate that there was no doubt some guy right behind me who couldn't wait to pay a premium for this uber hot new import from Japan. Honda obviously has not missed having me as a customer.....

It's just how a free market works. The price actually DOES get set by demand, and you can bet the other bike makers are taking note of the Grom popularity...
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:50 PM   #935
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^

the free market is not the begin all and end all of everything and sometimes the consumer just wants a square, HONEST deal. not a deal which locks one out in favor of what another has or is willing to pay, and a dealer who isn't playing fair with some customers

i know, life isn't fair. and sometimes neither is the free market. just sayin....sometimes it works for a person, sometimes against a person. even if they worked just as hard for what they have and are willing to pay what most (except the dealer) says its worth. some cannot (or will not ) pay an inflated price. for those who are willing to, they get a bike, the dealer sells a bike. but some, even if they can afford it at reasonable msrp+ fees, don't. the buyer here is also doing no one behind him a favor. and he doesn't have to. thats up to the buyer and how much he or she wants something. the folks behind you matter not, you got it. good for you :)

but thats not a "free market" at work for all when a value for a product has already been determined and advertised, but then you do the math at purchase time and think "who is getting my money, and for what?"

idk? maybe people don't have respect for money anymore? shame, really. "here you go, take it!" oh well

some greedy business owners and some well to do consumers. i couldn't careless about either, i want my best deal. Honda hasn't missed you, and neither has the dealer. great. so why give them so much "free market" consideration?

its just a mindset, but you gotta say "screw them" sometimes and let 'em know how disappointed you are


edit: oh, this isn't an anti free market / dealer rant. we have nothing better. but just because we like the free market doesn't mean people all of a sudden don't suck. some people do, and they deserve to know it
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Old 09-13-2013, 02:58 PM   #936
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kinda sux how they're jerking people around.
the pair i bought in Ct i paid MSRP of $2999ea plus $100ea 'Dealer Prep' which includes paying a tech to uncrate, assemble, activate battery, test ride, all that stuff... and $125 freight.. which again seems reasonable...
sales tax will differ from state to state but before sales tax my total was $3224ea..
sometimes people don't suck
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:32 PM   #937
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Yup. And when they do not suck I let em know it. But if they do, same deal
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:50 AM   #938
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Originally Posted by OBD View Post
kinda sux how they're jerking people around.
the pair i bought in Ct i paid MSRP of $2999ea plus $100ea 'Dealer Prep' which includes paying a tech to uncrate, assemble, activate battery, test ride, all that stuff... and $125 freight.. which again seems reasonable...
sales tax will differ from state to state but before sales tax my total was $3224ea..
sometimes people don't suck
Quite a difference between $3224 and $4300. Even figuring sales tax into those numbers. I wasn't going for a rant in my post above; I made a good living by taking care of clients and making sure all my clients were treated fairly. It chaps my ass when a businessperson charges more just because they feel they can get away with it. The MSRP is set by Honda, and that includes a fair retail mark-up for the dealer.

I get that someone would pay more than that amount 'cause they WANT IT! That is for each person to decide (and justify). That's the way an auction works. BUT, an auction isn't the same as a retail transaction.

I support a dealer who takes care of me... I go back and by accessories, helmets, jackets, etc. One who tries to stick it to me gets NONE of my business; not now, not in the future. I am a proven bike buyer, and I don't give a dealer a second chance to do the right thing.

But, that's just me. It is, after all, a free market system here - everyone is entitled to spend their money the way they choose.

Jim
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:47 AM   #939
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I just had my second fill up today. I got 123 mpg! I had to re-calculate because I thought I got it wrong. 123! Sweeeeeeeet!
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:19 PM   #940
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Interesting about the gripes about dealer pricing on a hot ticket new item in short supply are one-sided. People think it is unfair that a dealer marks up something that is in high demand and short supply? Well then don't buy one, not like having a Grom the first month they are out is any kind of necessity.

But yet people all the time brag on the great deal they got on a leftover or overstocked model that the dealer cut the price on to get rid of. Why is that okay? Do these same folks go in and say "No, I want to pay full MSRP on last year's model because that would be more fair to you"? No they do not.

Dealer would be stupid to let a hot item go out the door at only list price, just like they'd be stupid to hold out for list on an overstocked left-over. Next time you claim somebody should NOT charge what the market will bear on a discretionary purchase, get back to me how you price it when you sell your house.

(BTW, I think a Grom would be a cute toy, maybe buy one for the wife now that we realize she doesn't need the dualsport capability of her XT-225. But if I think the price is too high, I won't buy one. Simple as that. Nobody "needs" a Grom.)
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:34 PM   #941
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Nobody "needs" a Grom.
Nobody "needs" a motorcycle or a scooter. Everybody "wants" one.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #942
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I just had my second fill up today. I got 123 mpg! I had to re-calculate because I thought I got it wrong. 123! Sweeeeeeeet!
Jeez.

You might as well ride it out here so I can try it out.

You'll only need 11 gallons of fuel.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #943
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Interesting about the gripes about dealer pricing on a hot ticket new item in short supply are one-sided. People think it is unfair that a dealer marks up something that is in high demand and short supply? Well then don't buy one, not like having a Grom the first month they are out is any kind of necessity.

But yet people all the time brag on the great deal they got on a leftover or overstocked model that the dealer cut the price on to get rid of. Why is that okay? Do these same folks go in and say "No, I want to pay full MSRP on last year's model because that would be more fair to you"? No they do not.

Dealer would be stupid to let a hot item go out the door at only list price, just like they'd be stupid to hold out for list on an overstocked left-over. Next time you claim somebody should NOT charge what the market will bear on a discretionary purchase, get back to me how you price it when you sell your house.

(BTW, I think a Grom would be a cute toy, maybe buy one for the wife now that we realize she doesn't need the dualsport capability of her XT-225. But if I think the price is too high, I won't buy one. Simple as that. Nobody "needs" a Grom.)
simple. let it be advertised as "Price Set By Supply And Demand." i have heard really quick "actual price set by dealer" quips in many tv ads, to be fair. and its most likely in all that fine print they don't won't you to notice in the print ads, too

and if that is the case expect some push back from some consumers who care about their money. nothing is wrong with that. go ahead and sell to those with the most in their hands. its only fair to you and them

i am offering msrp, destination, all doc and dmv fees, and prep. where is the other $300 going?

i get to ask that question. and i would ask the guy behind me not to pay it. but he will so that is something that can't be stopped, either

so wtf i guess thats that. you all win, we all lose. or a lot of us, at least

"free market" woo-hoo

but know this, we lose because we would rather have backbone then feel we've been cheated. we can pay, but we won't. so there
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:12 PM   #944
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and i mean the above about anything. i get what i determine is a fair deal. i determine it based on what i know, not what is dictated to me

i offer what is more then reasonable. anything more you can take from someone else. so i am not just talking about a Grom here

so this is really a plea to those who would buy at an inflated price. don't do it. its not worth it

and thats a fact. even if its "worth it to me" believe when i say, its not. you should respect your money more

thats it bye. i'll be back when all this hogwash has washed out
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:24 PM   #945
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I installed a round headlight on mine. I am the first to do this, so I am special.

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