ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-29-2013, 11:10 AM   #151
Paebr332
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Oddometer: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
Me thick?

We're talking about motorcycles here, they are still sold with carburetors, try to keep up.

You have told others in this thread that we cannot look at old EFI systems for comparison, yet you just told me to do just that? You are so in your head that you can't see the real world.

I made one reference, one only and you say that I "keep referring"...I have not and will not and did not. You are an ass, plain and simple.

Again, motorcycle EFI systems are NOT reliable, data obtained by myself in the middle of nowhere.
Your example, statistically speaking, contains zero degress of freedom. In other words, it is useless for analysis of anything. It is, however, a great example of confirmation bias in action. That or Dunning-Kruger strikes again.

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." John Kenneth Galbraith
Paebr332 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 11:57 AM   #152
windmill
Beastly Adventurer
 
windmill's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Kent, Washington State
Oddometer: 4,084
This thread sure proves that techno geeks suffer from the same denial of reality that the luddites do.

Looking back through rose colored glasses, looking foward with blind optimism. Opposite sides of the same coin.
__________________
"Take care, sir," cried Sancho. "Those over there are not giants but windmills".
windmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 03:38 PM   #153
John Smallberries
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,233
De-Nile

Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
This thread sure proves that techno geeks suffer from the same denial of reality that the luddites do.

Looking back through rose colored glasses, looking foward with blind optimism. Opposite sides of the same coin.
It is not blind optimism - just reality. Every year, there will be fewer carb bikes and more EFi. Manufacturers must make them cheaper and more reliable. There is no fundamental reason for EFI to be less reliable than a carb. It is all a matter of execution. Older FI systems could be expensive and unreliable. Newer systems are better.

The OP question will be irrelevant soon as ALL new adventure bikes will have FI - just a matter of time.
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200

John Smallberries screwed with this post 01-29-2013 at 04:44 PM
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 03:39 PM   #154
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Can it be accessed by the owner or only by the dealer?
The owner. It is a pretty cool tool!

http://www.gs911usa.com/

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 04:07 PM   #155
Lion BR
I'd rather be riding
 
Lion BR's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Oddometer: 3,414
If carburators are so good, why aren't more bikes and cars carburated? Is it only emissions or because those things are actually crap?

I don't know, I remember an old aircooled VW I had, carburated. Every once in a while it needed a tune up, like in at least twice a year. But the best one was an Alfa Romeo Berlina where I junked the Spica fuel injection system (the car was a 1969 mind you - and I'm not that old, the car was. the point is fuel injection has been around) and put two side draft delhortos. That thing, the air intakes, sounded great.

Ok, there was some fun in being able to use my own mechanic (analog stuff) and seat of the pants feel to adjust those things. But it only really worked well when pros worked on them. Overall, I'm so much happier with fuel injection. Never need to mess with the system. Ok, if they fail, they do. But for the vast majority of the time, nada goes wrong.

Actually I never had a single problem with fuel injection on any of my vehicles. Knock on wood. Well, except for that VW Porsche (Porsche 924) with that Audi 2 Liter motor and a Bosch K-jetronic fuel injection system that no one could make run right. But that is a whole nother story.

But please, continue the pleasantries exchange, it is not my intent to stop the bickering. It is always fun to see these arguments when some people think their opinions value more than some other people's opinions.

Lion
__________________
Whenever we are riding, we are an ambassador to our sport

I'd rather be riding!


Lion BR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 05:18 PM   #156
John Smallberries
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,233
The tally

For what it is worth, I checked out which dual-sport bikes can be bought new today with FI or carb. Here is the list.
Carburetors:
Honda CRF450X, XR650L, CRF250X
Kawasaki KLR and KLX
Suzuki DRs 400 & 650
Yamaha TW200 (my little buddy)

Fuel injection:
All KTMs
All BMWs
All Husqvarnas
Honda XL700ATransAlp, CRF250L
Suzuki VStrom 650 & 1000
Yamaha Super Tenere, WR250R, XT250

One list will get longer, one will not.
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 05:23 PM   #157
VxZeroKnots
Beastly Adventurer
 
VxZeroKnots's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Durango CO
Oddometer: 2,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
For what it is worth, I checked out which dual-sport bikes can be bought new today with FI or carb. Here is the list.
Carburetors:
Honda CRF450X, XR650L, CRF250X
Kawasaki KLR and KLX
Suzuki DRs 400 & 650
Yamaha TW200 (my little buddy)

Fuel injection:
All KTMs
All BMWs
All Husqvarnas
Honda XL700ATransAlp, CRF250L
Suzuki VStrom 650 & 1000
Yamaha Super Tenere, WR250R, XT250, WR450F

One list will get longer, one will not.


If you're going to include te 450X it's only fair.
__________________
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure

No bike does everything perfectly. In fact, no bike does anything until someone gets on it to ride.

VxZeroKnots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 05:37 PM   #158
slartidbartfast
Love those blue pipes
 
slartidbartfast's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Location: Southern Louisiana or Southern England or ...
Oddometer: 4,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
...
Actually I never had a single problem with fuel injection on any of my vehicles. Knock on wood. Well, except for that VW Porsche (Porsche 924) with that Audi 2 Liter motor and a Bosch K-jetronic fuel injection system that no one could make run right. But that is a whole nother story...
I had a 1980 Scirocco with a Bosch mechanical fuel injection system (was that the Jetronic?) It was my first fuel-injected car and I recall it was pretty powerful (for a 1.6 litre engine of that era,) always started easily, and ran smootly under all conditions. Not needing to have mastery of an idiosynchratic choke and throttle-pumping ritual needed to get my previous old British cars going on a cold morning was an epiphany.

I recall the SUs on many old British cars being fairly low maintenance (apart from constantly topping up the dashpots with oil) and effective. The absolute worst were the twin Strombergs on my old US-spec TR-6. The UK model with Lucas mechanical injection had a full 50% more horsepower and vastly superior running.
__________________
MSF Ridercoach IBA: 35353 95 R1100GSA, 93 GTS1000, 85 R80RT, 93 DR350/435, 99 RX125, 78 DT100
January 2010 New Zealand South Island ride
Summer 2009 UK to Alps ride
Summer 2008 UK End-to-End ride
slartidbartfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 05:40 PM   #159
jasonmt
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Alberta, Canada
Oddometer: 376
Yep, FI on bikes sucks so bad that Honda added it to their 2013 CRF 450 Rally bike in place of the stock Keihin 40mm flat-slide carburetor.

I try my best to not buy things like bikes, sleds and quads etc. with carbs any more as I have had way more issues with past carbed bikes, sleds and quads etc. than I have with the FI bikes, sleds and quads I now own.

Then again my thumpers EFI systems are a lot simpler than this:

jasonmt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 07:25 PM   #160
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,225
That is about as simple as it gets...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmt View Post
Yep, FI on bikes sucks so bad that Honda added it to their 2013 CRF 450 Rally bike in place of the stock Keihin 40mm flat-slide carburetor.

I try my best to not buy things like bikes, sleds and quads etc. with carbs any more as I have had way more issues with past carbed bikes, sleds and quads etc. than I have with the FI bikes, sleds and quads I now own.

Then again my thumpers EFI systems are a lot simpler than this:

NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 08:48 PM   #161
H96669
A proud pragmatist.
 
H96669's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Hiding off Hwy 6, B.C.
Oddometer: 4,391
Is it just me but riding and wrenching since before most here got off their diapers, never really had much problems with any of them crappy carbs or crappy EFIs. I still prefer the later....so much better in cold climates.

Looking for a big thumper right now, don't really give a shit if carbed or EFI, will just get the right spare parts if I feel they may be needed,pack up my tools and go on my merry way.
__________________
Have tools, will travel!
H96669 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:01 PM   #162
fallingoff
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: syd oz
Oddometer: 3,677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
If carburators are so good, why aren't more bikes and cars carburated? Is it only emissions or because those things are actually crap?

I don't know, I remember an old aircooled VW I had, carburated. Every once in a while it needed a tune up, like in at least twice a year. But the best one was an Alfa Romeo Berlina where I junked the Spica fuel injection system (the car was a 1969 mind you - and I'm not that old, the car was. the point is fuel injection has been around) and put two side draft delhortos. That thing, the air intakes, sounded great.

Ok, there was some fun in being able to use my own mechanic (analog stuff) and seat of the pants feel to adjust those things. But it only really worked well when pros worked on them. Overall, I'm so much happier with fuel injection. Never need to mess with the system. Ok, if they fail, they do. But for the vast majority of the time, nada goes wrong.

Actually I never had a single problem with fuel injection on any of my vehicles. Knock on wood. Well, except for that VW Porsche (Porsche 924) with that Audi 2 Liter motor and a Bosch K-jetronic fuel injection system that no one could make run right. But that is a whole nother story.

But please, continue the pleasantries exchange, it is not my intent to stop the bickering. It is always fun to see these arguments when some people think their opinions value more than some other people's opinions.

Lion

my 81 928s ran perfectly
no problems
with fuel injection
just the thirst

ok lets discuss german fuel injection. lol

fallingoff screwed with this post 01-29-2013 at 09:17 PM Reason: foolish
fallingoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:14 PM   #163
corndog67
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Oddometer: 1,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
In Sept 2011 I did the "Intro to Adventure" and "Base Camp Alpha" excursions with RawHyde Adventures in Castaic, CA (fantastic!). Riding buddy, Dave, ended up in this slot in the Jawbone area:

In the drop, he broke off the electrical connector to the LH fuel injector:

Leaving him with a "600GS". Our RawHyde leader was able to limp the bike out, but he was done for the trip.

The moral of the story to me wasn't "shoulda had a carb", but "shoulda bought a Touratech fuel injector protector"
I think the moral to the story was, don't ride a street bike in the dirt, thinking it's a dirt bike. If that was a 450 or 300 KTM, you could have just blasted through or over that. Those aren't dirt bikes, guys.
corndog67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:15 PM   #164
PSYCHO II
Crusty Demon
 
PSYCHO II's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Gold Coast, AUS
Oddometer: 532
Computers run our lives and make things so much easier. But when computers fail, which is not that often, it all comes to a stop. Technology improves our ease of doing things and I wouldn't go back. To be stuck in the middle of nowhere because "computer says no" is just the result of our reliance of technology. There is more good than bad that comes with technology. Build a bridge and get over it.
PSYCHO II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:51 PM   #165
SteelJM1
Undercover KTM rider
 
SteelJM1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Tucson
Oddometer: 1,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
For what it is worth, I checked out which dual-sport bikes can be bought new today with FI or carb. Here is the list.
Carburetors:
Honda CRF450X, XR650L, CRF250X
Kawasaki KLR and KLX
Suzuki DRs 400 & 650
Yamaha TW200 (my little buddy)

Fuel injection:
All KTMs
All BMWs
All Husqvarnas
Honda XL700ATransAlp, CRF250L
Suzuki VStrom 650 & 1000
Yamaha Super Tenere, WR250R, XT250

One list will get longer, one will not.
Wroooong. My TE300 is very much carbed. Im looking forward to the day that KTM adopts direct injected 2-strokes...and hope they license the technology from polaris who's proven it... and hope they have a retrofit kit for the carbed ones. It's brand new and already I'm tired of fiddling with the goddamn jets and needles to get it to run great, which i'll just have to fiddle with again once it gets warmer. Or I go up in elevation. Or the humidity rises. And it won't drink expensive gas like it's going out of style.
SteelJM1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014