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Old 02-14-2013, 10:34 AM   #196
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dastard View Post
Serious question (as in, not being a smart ass), You can't pop the clutch on an EFI with a dead battery?

(not trying to be a smart ass, I have never actually tried it so I am speaking out of ignorance. I have popped the clutch on several cars and bikes to get them started. I couldn't get my V-Strom started by popping the clutch (it would burble and gurgle, trying to start) but I figured it was because I wasn't going fast enough)
It all depends on the bike. A dead battery on most electronic ignitions means a no start as well.

Jim
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:27 PM   #197
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food for thought. my 99 fuel injected 900ss got mid 40s fuel mileage. my 98 900ss with huge fcr 41s gets 60 mpg plus. the 98 has never once dropped into the 40s. i have ridden the carbed model from 4000 ft to 12000ft . i never touch them.
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:39 PM   #198
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Hi all ! yes , a carb will make more peak power than a properly tuned EFI setup . Has something to do with the way a carb emulsifies the fuel versus the way EFI sprays it. Ask any professional engine builder with a dyno and they will tell you the same thing . When I was finishing my 1969 Dart ( with a 416 stroker motor) I did lots of research about adding one of the aftermarket EFI setups . Do to the fact that EFI costs much more money and the proper carb makes more peak power I opted for a Quickfuel 750 . Sorry it's not what you EFI guys want to hear but that is where my research led me . Do your own research .....it may lead you in a different direction .
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Old 02-14-2013, 12:49 PM   #199
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I'd take FI any day when ADV riding out west and having huge elevation/temp changes.

Carbs like dirt better? It does not take much to clog pilot jets and such.
You still need to filter your gas either way or you're taking apart the bike.

An inline fuel line filter for carbs
or something like this for FI http://www.crfstuff.com/spfufiforktm.html
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:01 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
As long as the bike will start on the side of a hill with a dead battery, I have no problem with fuel injection or electric start on an adventure bike...
That's a funny point people bring up about dead batteries and FI.

If you're getting to that point in the batteries life, that is the owners fault for not maintaining the bike by switching out the battery when the life is getting towards the end. You know the rules going in that the bike needs a good battery to start and run.

If you've got years on a battery and it starts sounding questionable (at first start) buy a new battery. Yes batteries can go bad quickly but modern batteries give a warning when you first start the bike before the ride. If you can't hear that slower starting coming on (and saying I need a new battery right now) then maybe you are not qualified enough mechanically to ride in remote areas or you're just lazy.

Deka AGM batteries are $60 a pop and always give at least 3+ yrs of solid service. Is $20 a year not in the budget to start the bike every time??? Deka AGMs are rock solid in reliability.

Yes some batteries do, on a rare occasion, fail flat out and quickly. That can happen to any part however of any bike...it's rare and should not be a reason to say no to FI. If that's the fear buy a bike with points.
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eakins screwed with this post 02-14-2013 at 01:10 PM
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:09 PM   #201
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i'm comfortable with modern electronic mfg. processes that the FI parts just are not failing in any appreciable numbers.

i've been driving my FI vehicles for over 20 years and I don't drive down the road wondering if it the FI is gonna break. it take my SUV in very remote places and it keeps on ticking along and it's 11yrs old with over 100k miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I don't question that EFI is functionally superior, but..................................





When someone claims that this is less prone to failure and is easier to fix.................................


Than this........................


well...........................
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:14 PM   #202
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Like a lot in this world, it depends. I still don't have the greatest confidence in my F800gs. Not enough to go travel off pavement in the West by myself.

Way too many posts on clogged injectors, fuel controllers, fuel pumps and batteries dying.

First that bike won't start even if it cranks, if the voltage is too low. The Injectors are micro size. 16 holes to be exact. Develops a very fine spray which aids combustion but is susceptible to clogging.

The fuel pump has 2 filters. One for fuel entering about the size of a vacuum cleaner bag. The other is for pumped fuel, about the size of a thimble. Pull the pump and the big one looks barely used, the little one is fuel of aluminum oxide. The pump overheats trying to respond to the the controller. All neatly bundled together for maximum cost to the owner.

At least the controller be can be gone around.

Maybe when that gets fixed I can say it is as reliable as a carbed bike. At least I think I know how to achieve that at a reasonable cost.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:15 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by dirtyron View Post
food for thought. my 99 fuel injected 900ss got mid 40s fuel mileage. my 98 900ss with huge fcr 41s gets 60 mpg plus. the 98 has never once dropped into the 40s. i have ridden the carbed model from 4000 ft to 12000ft . i never touch them.
the scenario we are talking about is riding in remote places and the reliability of FI. that generally implies off-road and up in the mtns (or some remote western desert routes).

these are places where smaller bikes are the best choice (use the right tool for the job) and FI has helped them make power and deal with elevation. are you really riding that remotely that you could be all alone with no one to help if something happens? well you could be asking to get stranded if so no matter the bike.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:17 PM   #204
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then that is a BMW parts choice & supplier problem, not a fundamental problem with all FI systems.
1 poorly executed bike model does make the system as a whole flawed. maybe you need to buy another bike?


Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
Like a lot in this world, it depends. I still don't have the greatest confidence in my F800gs. Not enough to go travel off pavement in the West by myself.

Way too many posts on clogged injectors, fuel controllers, fuel pumps and batteries dying.

First that bike won't start even if it cranks, if the voltage is too low. The Injectors are micro size. 16 holes to be exact. Develops a very fine spray which aids combustion but is susceptible to clogging.

The fuel pump has 2 filters. One for fuel entering about the size of a vacuum cleaner bag. The other is for pumped fuel, about the size of a thimble. Pull the pump and the big one looks barely used, the little one is fuel of aluminum oxide. The pump overheats trying to respond to the the controller. All neatly bundled together for maximum cost to the owner.

At least the controller be can be gone around.

Maybe when that gets fixed I can say it is as reliable as a carbed bike. At least I think I know how to achieve that at a reasonable cost.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:41 PM   #205
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I could do that or just ride the one with the carb.
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itsatdm screwed with this post 02-14-2013 at 01:50 PM
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:50 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradluke0 View Post
Hi all ! yes , a carb will make more peak power than a properly tuned EFI setup . Has something to do with the way a carb emulsifies the fuel versus the way EFI sprays it. Ask any professional engine builder with a dyno and they will tell you the same thing . When I was finishing my 1969 Dart ( with a 416 stroker motor) I did lots of research about adding one of the aftermarket EFI setups . Do to the fact that EFI costs much more money and the proper carb makes more peak power I opted for a Quickfuel 750 . Sorry it's not what you EFI guys want to hear but that is where my research led me . Do your own research .....it may lead you in a different direction .
Like...Really?

So that's why every manufacture in pretty much every race class is using EFI MotoGP, F1, SBK...Granted, KTM uses a carb in their current rallye race bikes.

It does make sense though. Yamaha and Honda using EFI to give Ducati a chance
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:56 PM   #207
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there is nothing to argue here. most fi systems will out perform most carb systems. carbs are easier to fix. would you rather be stuck in a remote area with a malfunctioning carb or a malfunctioning fi system. end of discussion.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:03 PM   #208
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windmill summed up the whole deal in the first reply.15 pages later ....... its still going
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:39 PM   #209
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Maybe if the first reply wasn't fiction the thread would have ended there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyron View Post
carbs are easier to fix
They have to be.
If carbs were harder to fix people would say "Wait a minute, this thing only works at a certain altitude, over a narrow temperature range, I'll smell like gas if I want to adjust it for different times of the year or do the TAT trail, it leaks if I tip it more than 30 degrees, it spills gas when I go through whoops, I have to pull one lever when it's cold an another lever when it's hot AAANNNNDDD it's harder to fix? No thanks."

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyron View Post
end of discussion.
Oh yeah, that'll happen.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:52 PM   #210
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyron View Post
there is nothing to argue here. most fi systems will out perform most carb systems. carbs are easier to fix. would you rather be stuck in a remote area with a malfunctioning carb or a malfunctioning fi system. end of discussion.
Obviously not! Personally I would prefer to be not fixing EFI, becuase it nearly never breaks!

Jim
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