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Old 03-30-2014, 08:47 PM   #1
freetors OP
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Automotive navigation/ infotainment systems

It seems like 90% of new cars sold have some sort of navigation/ entertainment systems. Personally, I am very much against these. No car needs them and they serve no other purpose but to distract drivers. I don't want to buy any car with one of these installed, ever. Will auto manufacturers continue to provide software updates to these in 5, 10, or 20 years from now?

I can only imagine owning a car with one of these systems will be a frustrating and infuriating experience as cell phones and other devices increase in speed and capability while entertainment systems remain stagnant. I see these systems as an element that will really date these cars and make them feel antiquated and outdated at a much faster rate than we've ever known before.
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:11 PM   #2
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There's not much which would need a software update, if there are bugs they might release some but after that your apps are your apps on there and it's a closed system. So they wont be facing the issues of smart phones like my LG Ally for example which was decent enough when it was new but by the time I got rid of it the updates for the core apps/OS were so large that there wasn't room for much else.

Chevy is already offering touch screens on all Sparks and Sonics so it's made it down the line. But this is a good thing for both manufacturers and consumers, as tech gets cheaper all these things are moving from premium options to base model cars. Bluetooth, touch screens, steering wheel controls, back up cameras etc. are all either at the base model or moving that way, and this is compared to ~2000 when a high trim level on a compact meant a sunroof and alloys.

And the part that's good for the auto manufacturers is that it gives you a new incentive to upgrade. There now will be a bigger screen, smoother interface, etc. in addition to the basics like more room, MPG, and/or HP.

Right now is a bit of a transitional time though and a lot of automakers have some ugly solutions for the lower trim models that look very dated today. I'm not talking about a standard radio because that would be fine, instead they are trying to fill the custom whole for their infotainment system and in doing so leave tons of space and have a tiny low res sometimes even monochrome LCD.

If you're looking for a simple one VW has a nice double din radio in their base models right now:

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Old 03-31-2014, 12:20 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by freetors View Post
Will auto manufacturers continue to provide software updates to these in 5, 10, or 20 years from now?
Yeah, I'm with you. Imagine having a luxury car from the late 90s or early 2000s with the phone built into the armrest and integrated with the radio and other controls. SWEET! NOT!

A friend--and inmate who won't see this--bought the wife a Nissan Murano. Just out of warranty, the GPS took a crap. So they have this slick, integrated entertainment system in the dash that controls everything but, the GPS menu is just dead now. I think it was $1500 to fix the GPS portion. Not gonna' happen.

Auto makers don't give a damn about the second or third owner of a car. That's not their business. Their business is to sell you a new car every five years. If the electronics aren't too outdated in that time, it's all good. The rest of us bottom feeders will have to figure out what to do when we inherit them.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:52 AM   #4
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I just installed Kenwood DDX470 in my motorhome.

While it does not have GPS (other models do) it does have a double DIN touchscreen display an a dedicated volume knob (easy to adjust manually).

One feature that I like most is the ability to pair my telephone to the DDX470 via bluetooth. I can make & take calls with a simple touch to the screen & it works great.

It's much easier & safer than trying to make a call on the phone itself.

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Old 03-31-2014, 07:23 AM   #5
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Yeah, I'm with you. Imagine having a luxury car from the late 90s or early 2000s with the phone built into the armrest and integrated with the radio and other controls. SWEET! NOT!

A friend--and inmate who won't see this--bought the wife a Nissan Murano. Just out of warranty, the GPS took a crap. So they have this slick, integrated entertainment system in the dash that controls everything but, the GPS menu is just dead now. I think it was $1500 to fix the GPS portion. Not gonna' happen.

Auto makers don't give a damn about the second or third owner of a car. That's not their business. Their business is to sell you a new car every five years. If the electronics aren't too outdated in that time, it's all good. The rest of us bottom feeders will have to figure out what to do when we inherit them.
And what happens when Pandora, Facebook, twitter, etc go out of business? Do you have a worthless nonfunctional button on a screen reminding you of the 2000s? Or do you at least get the power to delete these apps?

I will give one concession to modern systems - I like bluetooth and USB connectivity, but a big touchscreen is not necessary to achieve that. I would like the option of streaming my own music to my car without having to carry around a bunch of CDs. Heck I wish my car's radio had the capability of doing that but it wasn't really a thing yet in 2002. And for some odd reason my car's factory radio has a tape player button but no tape player?
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by freetors View Post
And what happens when Pandora, Facebook, twitter, etc go out of business? Do you have a worthless nonfunctional button on a screen reminding you of the 2000s? Or do you at least get the power to delete these apps?

I will give one concession to modern systems - I like bluetooth and USB connectivity, but a big touchscreen is not necessary to achieve that. I would like the option of streaming my own music to my car without having to carry around a bunch of CDs. Heck I wish my car's radio had the capability of doing that but it wasn't really a thing yet in 2002. And for some odd reason my car's factory radio has a tape player button but no tape player?
They ran out of (the obsolete) tape players but hadn't gotten around to relabeling the button yet. Duh.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by freetors View Post
And what happens when Pandora, Facebook, twitter, etc go out of business? Do you have a worthless nonfunctional button on a screen reminding you of the 2000s? Or do you at least get the power to delete these apps?

I will give one concession to modern systems - I like bluetooth and USB connectivity, but a big touchscreen is not necessary to achieve that. I would like the option of streaming my own music to my car without having to carry around a bunch of CDs. Heck I wish my car's radio had the capability of doing that but it wasn't really a thing yet in 2002. And for some odd reason my car's factory radio has a tape player button but no tape player?
I don't use Pandora because I don't want to pay for it or listen to the ads.

I do have a 32 Gb flash drive connected to the included USB dongle - it had all of my music on it.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:37 AM   #8
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This is my single biggest turnoff with new cars - all the automation & integration. My 10+ year old Taco is pretty much all manual & the systems are separate. Something breaks, I fix that one thing.

My buddy drives a newer Infinity with all the bells & whistles. Just out of warranty, his A/C controls went tits up. Since they're integrated with the radio somehow, he wound up dumping around $2k on new electronics to fix a broken 'fan switch'

Y'all keep buying new. I'll take your leftovers

Oh, and touch screens in cars - dumbest idea evar
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:05 AM   #9
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The touch screen on the Kenwood and the GM stereo/nav unit in my Avalanche are very easy to use.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:40 AM   #10
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The touch screen on the Kenwood and the GM stereo/nav unit in my Avalanche are very easy to use.
Yes, but non-dedicated buttons like touch screens require a lapse in attention (from driving) from the driver. When you have a button/knob that's always in the same place, you can operate it unseen. With a touch-screen you're forced to turn your attention away from the driving task and on to the job of navigating a menu & making sure you're touching the proper place on the screen.

You're forcing the driver to pay less attention to driving. Dumbest idea evar.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:43 AM   #11
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Yes, but non-dedicated buttons like touch screens require a lapse in attention (from driving) from the driver. When you have a button/knob that's always in the same place, you can operate it unseen. With a touch-screen you're forced to turn your attention away from the driving task and on to the job of navigating a menu & making sure you're touching the proper place on the screen.

You're forcing the driver to pay less attention to driving. Dumbest idea evar.
I push buttons for a living (Pilot) and touch screens are a no brainer IMO. I've never had a problem walking & chewing gum at the same time.

The GM Nav systems don't allow you to select Nav functions (ie search for a destination) when moving. The radio works though.

And they have buttons too-

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Old 03-31-2014, 10:59 AM   #12
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Sure, looks like you can control that one with buttons only. But I'm thinking some of them are using systems where you have to use touch screens for some functions like maybe radio or climate control. Seems to me about the equivalent of playing with a smartphone while driving.

And it ain't pilots I worry about. Y'all tend to make great drivers as far as I've seen. Most people won't fit into that category - especially around here. I'm not telling you anything you don't know there
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:07 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by freetors View Post
It seems like 90% of new cars sold have some sort of navigation/ entertainment systems. Personally, I am very much against these. No car needs them and they serve no other purpose but to distract drivers. I don't want to buy any car with one of these installed, ever. Will auto manufacturers continue to provide software updates to these in 5, 10, or 20 years from now?

I can only imagine owning a car with one of these systems will be a frustrating and infuriating experience as cell phones and other devices increase in speed and capability while entertainment systems remain stagnant. I see these systems as an element that will really date these cars and make them feel antiquated and outdated at a much faster rate than we've ever known before.
We have a 2006 Outback with the factory radio integrated with the automatic HVAC system. It doesn't have an aux plug and adding one is extremely difficult. There are no aftermarket replacement radios. So I can understand where you are coming from, but.....

We have a small company fleet (six vehicles) and all the new vehicles we are buying have built-in gps, bluetooth, and if possible a backup camera.
  • Only about 25% of cars sold in the US and Europe have such electronics, not 90%.
  • We operate in several states that have outlawed anything but hands-free cell phones.
  • The backup camera is a safety feature even though company policy is to back into spaces whenever possible.
  • Selling the cars with electronics is much easier.
  • We don't plan to keep the vehicles for 20 years and frankly, don't know anyone who does.

The price of the electronics varies greatly by manufacturer. Some are lumped into packages costing $2,000 to $7,000. The GPS with higher-end stereo, Bluetooth, iPod interface and backup camera on our Chevrolet Cruze Diesel was $795.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by freetors View Post
And what happens when Pandora, Facebook, twitter, etc go out of business? Do you have a worthless nonfunctional button on a screen reminding you of the 2000s? Or do you at least get the power to delete these apps?

I will give one concession to modern systems - I like bluetooth and USB connectivity, but a big touchscreen is not necessary to achieve that. I would like the option of streaming my own music to my car without having to carry around a bunch of CDs. Heck I wish my car's radio had the capability of doing that but it wasn't really a thing yet in 2002. And for some odd reason my car's factory radio has a tape player button but no tape player?
Try using an iPod interface with some of those simple car radios, it's horrible. The big LCD makes it possible to navigate through 32GB of music.
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Old 03-31-2014, 01:36 PM   #15
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and as of 2018, your windshield mounted rear view mirror will be "integrated"...

http://news.msn.com/us/us-to-require...eras-by-2018-1

Quote:
The U.S. government said on Monday it will require new cars and light trucks sold in the United States to have rearview cameras by May 2018, a regulation intended to prevent drivers from backing into pedestrians.
Thank your fellow citizens who are too fucking stupid to look behind them when they jam the automatic gear shift thingy into "R".

Quote:
The agency estimated that it would cost between $132 and $142 to equip each vehicle with a rearview camera that meets the requirements.
Want to bet that a repair to the new system will add an extra zero to the cost it took to equip it?
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