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Old 01-17-2013, 04:25 PM   #31
concours
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Originally Posted by bomber60015 View Post
This is fun.

I do not believe that I've ever experienced the heartbreak that is phase separation in my fuel, but if I do, I know where to go for relief.

Star tron may be great stuff (non-caps so as not to confuse with teh aerosol insulation schtuff), but the lengths of poor behavior folks will go to defend their stance when it comes to this kinda thing never fails to amuse me . . . .

Imainge the exploding craniums if we were actually discussing something of import, like, you know, KLR horsepower.
Snake oil allegience, a tribute to clever advertising
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:47 PM   #32
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I've been known to succumb to a clever advertizing phrase. After all I used to write them.

To me an "enzyme" works in an organic process, like digesting food? A catalyst might have been a better word to use.

I also don't have many problems with the 10% ethanol. Fuel lines and maybe O-rings but I have been cleaning carbs before they go bad so I've been on top of it. I think the plastic floats may be affected. Again then current ones are only one year old.

I would like to see any comments by anybody who has a back ground in Chemistry and/or independent studies of these kinds of claims. The blubs with the product are pretty useless. And parts people? They are worse than me when it comes to wanting to believe in Free Lunch.

I bought one battle of Star Tron about 5 or 6 years ago. Guess what? I bought it in a boat store. I still have most of that bottle.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Wasser View Post
Of course your dealer said you should buy some from him.

You could also buy a can of Coleman fuel from Walmart and have almost the same thing.

A can of naphtha.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This statement got me doing some research, and everything I found shows that both are indeed Naphtha!!!

Naphtha (CAS # 64742-47-8)

Star Tron (CAS#64742-47-7) has 0.5% "Proprietary Organic Compounds" in addition to the Naphtha

Sta-bil (CAS # 64742-47-8) turns out to be Deodorized Kerosene

So no Sta-bil & Star tron are NOT the same!
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:00 AM   #34
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These fuel additive threads are starting to smell like oil threads!
I wish someone would "truly unravel" ( my phrasing for using real scientific knowledge combined with pro level wrenching skills) the question of if and how you treat stored 10% fuel to not cause the problems that -YES!- do actually happen to fuel lines filters,fuel pumps,floats,carb. diaphragms,etc..I live where & how I need a chain saw ready to go all the time & that's just one version of the issue of gas storage aside from the seasonal MC one.
I have now read here & other threads as to how every fuel additive is actually some commonly available "other stuff" such as kerosene,naptha & other various goop. That doesn't mean that "branded cures" don't work but do cost lots more of course.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and take your time answering while I run after some STP...
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
These fuel additive threads are starting to smell like oil threads!
I wish someone would "truly unravel" ( my phrasing for using real scientific knowledge combined with pro level wrenching skills) the question of if and how you treat stored 10% fuel to not cause the problems that -YES!- do actually happen to fuel lines filters,fuel pumps,floats,carb. diaphragms,etc..I live where & how I need a chain saw ready to go all the time & that's just one version of the issue of gas storage aside from the seasonal MC one.
I have now read here & other threads as to how every fuel additive is actually some commonly available "other stuff" such as kerosene,naptha & other various goop. That doesn't mean that "branded cures" don't work but do cost lots more of course.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and take your time answering while I run after some STP...
Read post #6...... This Vino sat for 8 mos. in NM heat. A 2 stroke 50cc like your saw. 2 kicks and ran great. It's not expensive if you follow the directions! One bottle lasts a really long time when you use a capful. If it works it works. Who cares if it is made from liquified dog poop or whatever?
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:27 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by buls4evr View Post
This Vino sat for 8 mos. in NM heat. A 2 stroke 50cc like your saw. 2 kicks and ran great.
I have an old Mac 10-10 that sits in my storage shed unused for years at a time. After 5 years of NO use , it recently started on the second pull .... two stroke oil is the only additive in the 5+ year-old gas.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:06 PM   #37
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2T oil

RideAbout...I think two stroke oil must stabilize the fuel. I read that on a bottle of two stroke oil one time.
That's cool about your chain saw starting that easily. My Stihl PRO 026 or whatever it is never starts without a shot of ether. Runs great otherwise. All my other 2T suff starts right up but not that darn saw!
I use Stabil or startron now even in my 2T fuel just because I worry about shit like that.
I heard fuel in a plastic jug loses octane rapidly. Not so much in a metal can.
Wonder if the Stabil and Startron stop that octane loss like they claim too.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by RideAbout View Post
I have an old Mac 10-10 that sits in my storage shed unused for years at a time. After 5 years of NO use , it recently started on the second pull .... two stroke oil is the only additive in the 5+ year-old gas.
When we have people bragging about a Mac saw being easy to start its time to head for the fridge... Seriously, there is a reason that loggers & farmers pretty much universally walked away from Mac & Homelite saws.
I was sincere in my saw comments-ask a small engine repair shop what sort of repairs they get these days from 10% fuel. By the same token , Everything that is sold to enhance fuel storage seems to be something common and sort of a "repackage" sort of thing with a new price point? Honest appraisal of what I've read so far here & many other similar threads.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:47 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by TwoTiredRiders View Post
RideAbout...I think two stroke oil must stabilize the fuel. I read that on a bottle of two stroke oil one time.
That's cool about your chain saw starting that easily. My Stihl PRO 026 or whatever it is never starts without a shot of ether. Runs great otherwise. All my other 2T suff starts right up but not that darn saw!
I use Stabil or startron now even in my 2T fuel just because I worry about shit like that.
I heard fuel in a plastic jug loses octane rapidly. Not so much in a metal can.
Wonder if the Stabil and Startron stop that octane loss like they claim too.
I'm certainly no chemist but fail to see how 2 cycle oil stabilizes water in 10% fuels? It sure doesn't prevent issues in my machines & many others. Diaprhagms last way less than in the past.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by buls4evr View Post
Read post #6...... This Vino sat for 8 mos. in NM heat. A 2 stroke 50cc like your saw. 2 kicks and ran great. It's not expensive if you follow the directions! One bottle lasts a really long time when you use a capful. If it works it works. Who cares if it is made from liquified dog poop or whatever?
+1 See, it really isn't hard
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:00 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RideAbout View Post
I have an old Mac 10-10 that sits in my storage shed unused for years at a time. After 5 years of NO use , it recently started on the second pull .... two stroke oil is the only additive in the 5+ year-old gas.
I'm no chemist, and I don't even play one on TV - I'm just a cranky guy with a laptop and a bunch of gasoline powered equipment like the rest of you.

Well, pure-gas.org lists 166 stations in Oregon where currently you can buy non-ethanol gas. There's a fair chance that years ago there were even more that sold non-ethanol gas, and that may be what's in your saw. And yes, before the Great Satan ethanol, mixing 2-stroke oil with the gas was sufficient to maintain the volatility of my stored fuel for long periods as well. It does not appear to be sufficient now that we have only E-10 available here (CT).

Also, plastic fuel containers can "breathe" over time, allowing in moisture and passing out the fuel's volatility.

I've had good luck with Star tron (or Soltron - same stuff but more concentrated) as well as Sta-Bil (however, after 4 years in a generator, the fuel tank was dry and rusted and there was only a red deposit in the carb's float bowl). If you look on the label of a recent bottle of Sta-Bil, it mentions that the bottle has a 2 year shelf life once opened, and has a place for you to record the date that you opened it. That being the case, I imagine that 2 years would also be the maximum length of time that fuel with Sta-Bil would be useful.

And yes Bomber, this is just as much fun as an oil thread.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:07 AM   #42
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Ethanol (EtOH) in gasoline doesn't effect engine or engine parts (in fact, it has a high octane (anti-knock) rating). The bitch about EtOH is that it is very hygroscopic (absorbs water) and water can destroy engines and engine parts. If it's run constantly (like most automobiles), there usually is no issue (modern automobiles are usually designed to handle E10 or greater), but bikes and boats get stored for long stretches of time.

What chemicals can remove EtOH from gasoline? None. What chemicals can remove water from EtOH or from E10 gasoline? None.

Don't waste your money.

For long-term storage, drain the tank and fill with marine (E0) gasoline (if you can find it).
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:16 AM   #43
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Ethanol (EtOH) in gasoline doesn't effect engine or engine parts (in fact, it has a high octane (anti-knock) rating). The bitch about EtOH is that it is very hygroscopic (absorbs water) and water can destroy engines and engine parts. If it's run constantly (like most automobiles), there usually is no issue (modern automobiles are usually designed to handle E10 or greater), but bikes and boats get stored for long stretches of time.

What chemicals can remove EtOH from gasoline? None. What chemicals can remove water from EtOH or from E10 gasoline? None.

Don't waste your money.

For long-term storage, drain the tank and fill with marine (E0) gasoline (if you can find it).
Exactly. SIDE BENEFIT to E10 gasoline is we (in the North) don't have to worry about using "Dry-Gas" (gas line anti-freeze) any longer.... it's already in there!
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:22 AM   #44
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So, your saying that ethanol "doesn't affect plastic or certain rubber parts in engine assy's"? FWIW, I disagree.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:37 PM   #45
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Now where can I get baby food jars?

This whole conspiracy theory won't be hard to test, six clear small bottle. An ounce of fuel in each one treated and untreated with various products. Let sit six months as if in a carb. We all know carb gas goes bad in a month or so vs tank gas which can last years, so we will test the small amounts for smell and discoloration, or lack thereof. And lastly its burn ability. Better term for that I'm sure. I will let the nieces and nephews handle this for their annual science fair project. Someone smart at school, maybe their science teacher, should be able to figure out a way to document the burn rate and stuff like that. (Hopefully safely). Sure we could just do the hillbilly way: that smells like varnish pause puke, go to next one. The amount of this stabilizer products I am using I'd like to know if its doing anything. If betting money I'd say I'm all in for it is doing something to prevent octane loss etc...
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