Aluminium fuel tanks and E85 fuel

Steve G. · 01-20-2013, 11:33 PM

I'm looking at a Bartel fuel tank for my Norton, as a bit of a project to dress it up the odd time as a Norvil proddy racer. I was recently told that alloy is also very sensitive to E10 and E85 fuels. This is a new one on me! I know fiberglass tanks have a very short life with E15, and of course the widely known and documented issues with E15 and vinyl/nylon tanks.

But alloy??? WTF,,,,,

Cogswell · 01-21-2013, 04:07 AM

Sounds like misinformation to me, I have never heard of such.

I would think you are fine, but why E85 in a bike ?

Mike

Airhead Wrangler · 01-21-2013, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogswell

I would think you are fine, but why E85 in a bike ?

Yeah, running E85 I'd be more concerned about the engine than the tank.

ttpete · 01-21-2013, 09:40 AM

The ethanol in E85 isn't a big problem. I think that it's being confused with methanol, which will corrode things if left in a fuel system.

To get the full benefit from a fuel like E85, the engines' compression ratio needs to be increased and more ignition advance is also required.

Steve G. · 01-21-2013, 06:16 PM

Geez, I'm sorry guys. When I was talking about E85, I meant E15. Yes, you are right, that total avoidance of E85 is of the highest priority.
I'm getting the picture that the info I got about E15 and alumimium tanks [from the Norton Commando forum] is not correct. I've been forced a couple times to use E15 in my RC30, which has an alloy tank. To this day, the inside of this tank is pristine.

CoyoteCowboy · 01-21-2013, 06:40 PM

Yeah, you should be fine with that in there. Now, methanol left in an alloy tank

...over time forms kind of this slimy shit thats about the consistency of calf snot and will plug up a fuel filter in a heartbeat. EVEN IF you drain the tank that crap will form. You have to wipe it out with a rag on a stick then swish a lil WD-40 around to keep it at bay. (I've got buddies with alcohol drag cars

)

Tripletreat · 01-21-2013, 08:32 PM

An interesting take on this subject was aired last week on TV. It detailed the many problems Oregon boat owners are having with gasoline/alcohol mixes. I think it would be very prudent to coat any alu tank with Casewell's excellent product. I plan to do just that myself after viewing this: http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/
Sadly, government seems to be mandating fuel use without weighing the costs to users. In the case mentioned in the above cite, it could have fatal consequences.

Andyvh1959 · 01-22-2013, 08:06 AM

E10, E15 and E85 are all ethanol based blended fuels. In my opinion ALL of them should be avoided in motorcycle engines whenever possible. If you are going to simply run the fuel through the engine such that the bike won't be sitting around with ethanol blended fuel in the engine, then the only loss is fuel mileage. Fuel mileage is proved to be down from 5% to over 15% on ethanol blended fuels.

If the bike will be sitting around unused for any length of time I avoid ANY ethanol blended fuels. The ethanol blended gas degrades quickly, and ethanol attracts water. It forms acids in the oil if left in the engine. Nothing good about it as regards motorcycle engines.

ttpete · 01-22-2013, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andyvh1959

E10, E15 and E85 are all ethanol based blended fuels. In my opinion ALL of them should be avoided in motorcycle engines whenever possible. If you are going to simply run the fuel through the engine such that the bike won't be sitting around with ethanol blended fuel in the engine, then the only loss is fuel mileage. Fuel mileage is proved to be down from 5% to over 15% on ethanol blended fuels.

If the bike will be sitting around unused for any length of time I avoid ANY ethanol blended fuels. The ethanol blended gas degrades quickly, and ethanol attracts water. It forms acids in the oil if left in the engine. Nothing good about it as regards motorcycle engines.

Ethanol's not the only bad actor in motor fuel today. There are plenty of other unstable hydrocarbons in there as well. Surprisingly, today's fuel keeps better in an airtight steel container than anywhere else, and low temperatures retard chemical changes. If you want to see fuel go bad quickly, leave an uncolored plastic jug of it in direct sunlight for a few days. UV breaks it down rapidly.

robtg · 01-22-2013, 10:43 AM

I have had aluminium tanks on all my motorcycles for the last 10 years using E10 or whatever it is now with no problems.

01-20-2013, 11:33 PM	#1
Steve G. ^OP Beastly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2004 Location: British Columbia Oddometer: 5,883	Aluminium fuel tanks and E85 fuel I'm looking at a Bartel fuel tank for my Norton, as a bit of a project to dress it up the odd time as a Norvil proddy racer. I was recently told that alloy is also very sensitive to E10 and E85 fuels. This is a new one on me! I know fiberglass tanks have a very short life with E15, and of course the widely known and documented issues with E15 and vinyl/nylon tanks. But alloy??? WTF,,,,, __________________ Garage Residents: '72 Norton 750 Combat, '74 Honda CT70, '74 Norton 850 Interstate, '81 Laverda Jota '89 Honda RC30, '91 BMW R100GS '08 BMW R1200GS

01-21-2013, 04:07 AM	#2
Cogswell Spudly Adventurer Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Riding with my pal Richard Cranium Oddometer: 3,253	Sounds like misinformation to me, I have never heard of such. I would think you are fine, but why E85 in a bike ? Mike __________________ Cogswell Rides To Big Bend See my airhead project here Time Warp Vintage Motorcycle Club The good thing is, your damn motor can't read. If it says oil on the container, it's pretty much OK to dump in there.... ED.

01-21-2013, 09:40 AM	#4
ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus Joined: May 2009 Location: Dearborn, MI Oddometer: 3,509	The ethanol in E85 isn't a big problem. I think that it's being confused with methanol, which will corrode things if left in a fuel system. To get the full benefit from a fuel like E85, the engines' compression ratio needs to be increased and more ignition advance is also required. __________________ 10 Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S - "Sleipnir" 09 Kaw Versys "The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" _____ Margaret Thatcher

01-21-2013, 06:16 PM	#5
Steve G. ^OP Beastly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2004 Location: British Columbia Oddometer: 5,883	Geez, I'm sorry guys. When I was talking about E85, I meant E15. Yes, you are right, that total avoidance of E85 is of the highest priority. I'm getting the picture that the info I got about E15 and alumimium tanks [from the Norton Commando forum] is not correct. I've been forced a couple times to use E15 in my RC30, which has an alloy tank. To this day, the inside of this tank is pristine. __________________ Garage Residents: '72 Norton 750 Combat, '74 Honda CT70, '74 Norton 850 Interstate, '81 Laverda Jota '89 Honda RC30, '91 BMW R100GS '08 BMW R1200GS

01-21-2013, 06:40 PM	#6
CoyoteCowboy Easily Distracted Joined: Jun 2005 Location: Medicine Lodge, Ks (Gyp Hills) Oddometer: 243	Yeah, you should be fine with that in there. Now, methanol left in an alloy tank ...over time forms kind of this slimy shit thats about the consistency of calf snot and will plug up a fuel filter in a heartbeat. EVEN IF you drain the tank that crap will form. You have to wipe it out with a rag on a stick then swish a lil WD-40 around to keep it at bay. (I've got buddies with alcohol drag cars ) __________________ "East were the Dead kings and the remembered sepulchres; West was the grass." Archibald MacLeish

01-21-2013, 08:32 PM	#7
Tripletreat Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Dec 2008 Location: Boise, Idaho Oddometer: 408	An interesting take on this subject was aired last week on TV. It detailed the many problems Oregon boat owners are having with gasoline/alcohol mixes. I think it would be very prudent to coat any alu tank with Casewell's excellent product. I plan to do just that myself after viewing this: http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/ Sadly, government seems to be mandating fuel use without weighing the costs to users. In the case mentioned in the above cite, it could have fatal consequences. __________________ .................................................. ................ For all we know, this may all be just a dream; we come, we go like the ripples in a stream.

01-22-2013, 08:06 AM	#8
Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen Joined: Feb 2012 Location: Da frozen tundra, 1.5 mile west of Lambeau Oddometer: 113	E10, E15 and E85 are all ethanol based blended fuels. In my opinion ALL of them should be avoided in motorcycle engines whenever possible. If you are going to simply run the fuel through the engine such that the bike won't be sitting around with ethanol blended fuel in the engine, then the only loss is fuel mileage. Fuel mileage is proved to be down from 5% to over 15% on ethanol blended fuels. If the bike will be sitting around unused for any length of time I avoid ANY ethanol blended fuels. The ethanol blended gas degrades quickly, and ethanol attracts water. It forms acids in the oil if left in the engine. Nothing good about it as regards motorcycle engines. __________________ When life throws you a curve,.....lean into it!

01-22-2013, 10:43 AM	#10
robtg Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: san jose Oddometer: 359	I have had aluminium tanks on all my motorcycles for the last 10 years using E10 or whatever it is now with no problems.

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