Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki & Kawasaki - Listen Up, Please...

[mtntrails]

Yes, Suzuki is probably in the best position currently to fill this void as it relates to their current model lineup since they don't have a 250 to steal sales from and their 650 has probably reached the limits of EPA certification. Financially they are probably in the worst position to commit R&D to a New DR-Z400. A modern, re-worked DR-Z400 would totally hit the spot. They would sell a kajillion of them and RULE the dualsport universe.

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by joexr

Dealer network and parts availability , both OEM and aftermarket.

I have a KTM dealer 20 minutes away and a Husky dealer about 30. As far as aftermarket there are tons of stuff out there for those bikes, and if you start out with a better bike there is less to upgrade anyway. Does anyone think a Suzuki DR-Z400 is a better dual sport then a KTM 350EXC? There are numerous Euro 450's out there as well. Maybe KTM, BMW, Husky, and Beta don't have a big presence in the empty reaches of the Great Plains but I got parts for my aprilia both at a dealer 20 minutes away as well as through the Internet from AF1 in Texas. The Euro bikes are just as reliable and better overall out of the box. Unless you take your bike to a dealer for an oil change there is nothing you can't get online that makes location a factor.

[jon_l]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

I have a KTM dealer 20 minutes away and a Husky dealer about 30. As far as aftermarket there are tons of stuff out there for those bikes, and if you start out with a better bike there is less to upgrade anyway. Does anyone think a Suzuki DR-Z400 is a better dual sport then a KTM 350EXC? There are numerous Euro 450's out there as well. Maybe KTM, BMW, Husky, and Beta don't have a big presence in the empty reaches of the Great Plains but I got parts for my aprilia both at a dealer 20 minutes away as well as through the Internet from AF1 in Texas. The Euro bikes are just as reliable and better overall out of the box. Unless you take your bike to a dealer for an oil change there is nothing you can't get online that makes location a factor.

True, and they're fine enduro machines. The new KTM 500 EXC is pure sex on 2 wheels. But more than I need or could utilize.

My WR250R manual calls for oil changes every 3,000 miles, and the 1st valve check at 26,000 miles. I don't want a race bike, I want an add gas, lube the chain, and ride bike.

A DR-Z 400 updated per the short list noted previously in this thread would suit me perfectly.

[NJ-Brett]

There is one KTM dealer about 30 miles from my house.
They do not seem to have many bikes, and I am not sure they have any that are street legal.
I think they are very expensive, and a risky buy used.
I think parts are also very expensive, and I can not keep track of what engines hold up well, have longer service intervals, which are street legal, which ones vibrate like mad, etc.

So clue me in, what in the 350cc range is legal in 50 states, and would be good for a 600 mile road trip.

With the Japanese dual sports, you have the current 250cc bikes and the dr650 all of which will be trouble free for a LOT of miles, running between $4000.00 to about $7000.00? new, the dr650 is $6500.00 new, the crf 250l is $4500.00, the klx250 is about $5000.00. The wr250 is over $7000.00 I think.

What does KTM have?

[Royal Tiger]

There are obviously different tools for different applications. I had a KLR650 and it was a great bike. My BMW is just as reliable, over 100 pounds lighter, has a better suspension, is fuel injected, and has 12-15 more horsepower.

Considering all the Big 4 brands have had reliability issues of late (granted not on low stressed 20 year old dual sport designs) I have no qualms about taking a Euro bike long distances.

As far as a street legal sub 400cc bike, check out the KTM 350EXC and Husqvarna TE311. I would ride either as far as I would take a KLX250S, CRF250L, DR200, or XT250. And I'd be on a superior machine. Especially off road. A sub 400cc dual sport isn't happy on the interstate no matter who makes it. There are other bikes for that.

[CMS]

Originally Posted by Gundy

Count me as one who is sitting out the dual sport market until this mid sized DS comes along. Ive had amodified DRZ, modded WRR, klr685 etc,, and they all seem to just miss the sweet spot. The heavily modded WR was probably the closest to perfect, but needed just a liiitle bit more grunt....another 100cc would be ideal. By the time it was modded for power, it was too dang loud since the rpms had to be kept high. The current 350 offerings are all of the engine rebuild variety......whhhyyyyy?!


WR 3xx or 4xx or maybe suzuki could just make the DRZ FI and six speed....they are so close it hurts on that bike. Would it really be so hard to change a couple gear ratios and slap a throttle body in there, and fix that can chain tensioner while they are at it? Not asking too much IMO. in the meantime I'm doing the american bigger is better thing on my S10, which fits most of my riding pretty well. I am sure the corporate guys at the big 4 all are looking at the pressure put on riding areas and shaking their heads....why put more R&D into this type of bike when there is nowhere to ride?


And, while they are at it, spring the dang thing for a rider over 150 lbs. DS riders don't seem to miss many meals.....200 lbs should be the standard and al the lightweights can put softer springs in.

Suzuki makes a Quad 400 with FI and has been around for a few years,why isn'y it in the DRZ400? My dealer had one on the showroom floor, so it's aproved here in the States. CMS

[Kawidad]

It must be winter again.

[Grreatdog]

You think?

I suspect this will get hashed out about 205 more times before spring.

[acesandeights]

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first 205 posts in it, and it seems pretty obvious most people just haven't found a DR650 yet. It's a Suzuki product, pretty cutting edge, and seems to fit the bill for everyone in this thread. Check it out and you'll probably sell whatever you currently own and buy a DR650. I hope that helps.

[Pigford]

I don't see why everyone seems so "hung-up" with having a dealer near by? If you want a bike at a decent price - buy private

Surely in this modern age you can get stuff mailed - eBay, etc, for servicing & repairs

[p0diabl0]

A lot of people just don't want the maintenance, reliability, and costs, perceived or otherwise, of a KTM.

[NJ-Brett]

I have been reading up on the 350 EXC, and it seems some people would take a wr250 on a long trip over the exc.
(people that have both bikes)
The exc seems like a killer off road, likely the best you can get.
And yes, it sounds just like a race bike with lights.

[Gryphon12]

I want a modern 450cc Adv DS, too. But I agree - it won't happen soon, at least not from Japan. So, the modern choices are:

KLX-250S/SF
WR-250R/X
350 EXC-F
500 EXC-F
TE-610 - discontinued but still available used
TE-630 - discontinued but still available used
690E/R

Heavier options (over 325 lbs. wet) include:
DR-650 (old tech)
TE-650 Terra/Strada
KLR-650 (old tech)
F650GS/Dakar/Sertao series (mixed tech)

Possible future: KTM 390 Adv, as mentioned above, but not yet confirmed for production in 2014.

Edit: I want a top-shelf suspension, too, just like the OP. That means that the price starts at $8,000 US and goes up from there (which is another reason why it will not happen - you'll always have to upgrade your stock suspension).

[Albie]

Originally Posted by joexr

Dealer network and parts availability , both OEM and aftermarket.

Internet age, I get my parts quicker if I order them myself then when I go through the local dealer who never stocks anything. I wouldn't trust any of my local dealers to change a spark plug on my bike either.

[HandKPhil]

I've been waiting for some jerk to say something along the lines of, "Why not just buy the cleanest, lowest-mileage, 1998 or 1999 Suzuki DR350SE you can find, and you will have hit most of the criteria that people on this thread seem to be looking for?"

So, I hereby volunteer to be that Jerk.

Why not just buy the cleanest, lowest-mileage, 1998 or 1999 Suzuki DR350SE you can find, and you will have hit most of the criteria that people on this thread seem to be looking for?

350cc's
6-speed trans
around 300lbs.
decently strong subframe
around 28 or so HP at the crank
decent off-road performance for a dual-sport
fully adjustable suspension/cartridge forks
Jap-bike reliability and parts availability

I just bought a '99 that had 1800 miles on it. It runs perfectly. It was clean enough to eat off of. It was well under $2500. After putting on fresh tubes, top-quality tires, changing all fluids, filters, etc., I basically have a brand new 350cc, six-speed dual sport, for well under $2800.

Smug, self-satisfied rant over.