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Old 01-28-2013, 12:35 PM   #121
Albie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UtahFox View Post
LOL - nailed it!

Some bike porn from this morning...



Sexy huh?

P.S. The color of the scooter is manly green.

70* here right now.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:37 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msanna View Post
WR450 <275lbs
-easy to plate
Been there done that, the EXC was better so I got rid of the WR.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:49 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post

Enter the KTM 690 Enduro R: 66 hp at the crank, 325 lbs. wet with a 12-liter (3.2 gal US) tank. Price in the US for 2013 is almost $12k.
Nope MSRP is 10,299

http://www.ktm-parts.com/mm5/merchan...FWaoPAodjSwAug

I bet I can pick one up for 8.5k if I wanted. In 08 the MSRP was $9999, I got mine for $8254 OTD.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:03 PM   #124
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Christmas before last my KTM dealer had a new leftover 690SM for $7000. So I am guessing it was a 2009 or 2010. It caused me physical pain to walk past that bike without buying it. But I figured the divorce wasn't worth it. Close though.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:59 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tiger View Post
I try.



Smart man.



My G650X weighs less then 320 wet and has mid 50's HP. The craziest bike I rode was an aprilia RXV 5.5 dual sport. It had over 70hp at the crank easily as it was putting down 66 on the dyno. I watched it at Eurosports in Cooperburg, PA personally. I'd kill myself on that beast.

I gotta go with whats offered for my needs.....and KTM is that ticket
I talked to a guy who had the RXV 5.5 and he raved about the power, he said it was an awesome hooligan bike that got him in lots of trouble I think he also mentioned he had lots of probs with it tho too, especially the engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I think you can get close to 50 hp out of a dr650 with the typical mods, but you have a hard time dropping 50 pounds off the bike.

I just don't get where all the extra weight comes from.
In 1969, Triumph could build a 500cc twin, with iron cylinders, metal fenders, NO plastic, huge drum brakes, steel wheels, dual exhaust, massive crankshaft, 4 quart oil tank, heavy steel clutch and primary chain, and get the weight well under 350 pounds.
Easy to save 50 pounds on that bike, maybe 75 pounds, and it was strong, I crashed it many times without damage.
I even did 2 up dirt riding many times on it without anything breaking.

It just seems like we should be able to have a strong bike with good power in a 500 to 650 cc range from the Japanese coming in around 300 pounds, what with all the plastic and other modern meterials, without it having to be a race bike.
I'm also puzzled as to why most dualsports have to be so heavy.....hell there's not much to them if you look close, where's the weight hiding??? Aluminum this, magnesium that, and they still weigh 300lbs
I'm thinking maybe are expectations are just a little too high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Light weight, high HP, reasonable cost. Pick any two. Economics dictates that you can't have all three.

We've discussed this on many threads. The difference between a KTM 500 EXC enduro racer at 255 lbs. wet weight. and a true 450cc Dual Sport with similar performance is a least 40 lbs: DOT lights, real rear subframe, high output alternator and matching battery, larger tank filled with gas, a real seat, and some other details. 260 lbs. for the same DS package just isn't realistic yet, and would cost more than the current KTM race bikes.

Enter the KTM 690 Enduro R: 66 hp at the crank, 325 lbs. wet with a 12-liter (3.2 gal US) tank. Price in the US for 2013 is almost $12k.
12 grand, and they still can't get it under 300lbs....so close tho
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:18 AM   #126
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The 500 EXC is 250.2 lbs without fuel. 2.25 gallons of gas adds 18 lbs. bringing the curb weight to 268.2 lbs

The 350 EXC is 241.4 lbs without fuel. Add 18 lbs for gas... 259.4 lb curb weight

The 690 Enduro is 305.3 lbs without fuel. 3.2 gallons of gas is 25.6 lbs bringing the curb weight to 330.9 lbs

DR-Z400S - 317 lbs curb weight

XR650L - 346 lbs curb weight

WR250R - 295 lbs curb weight

CRF250L - 320 lbs curb weight


Given all of the requirements listed in the original post for a modern, mid-size, mass-market dualsport from the big 4, a curb weight of under 300 lbs seems like a reasonable expectation. Sure, lighter is better. With modern materials and manufacturing processes, a 280 lbs curb weight is probably achievable, but at what cost? 290 - 300 lbs seems like a reasonable expectation if the bike is going to be priced to sell in volume.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:37 AM   #127
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I lost just over 100 pounds going from a KLR650 to my G650X. You can feel it in the woods, that's for sure. And loading it the bed of a high pick up.

Around 300 is manageable. Sure 250 is great, but anything under 320-330 is adequate. And some extra weight helps on the road if you commute on it.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:43 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtntrails View Post
If a bike like this were to suddenly appear in dealer showrooms, would it be on your short list to purchase in the next year or two? (assuming the aftermarket has made all of the parts (skid plates, racks, fuel tanks, etc.) you need to fit your application)
There's the catch. The fact is that over the years, I've spent a lot of time and money modifying the DRZ to more closely match my criteria. At this point there's nothing else remotely like it in any showroom. Now if it was sunny out and and something on it broke and I knew about this fictional bike, I'd probably make the jump. I've got two other family members looking to replace their DRZ's this year, so they're already looking.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:53 AM   #129
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MX (450) bikes are now 245 lbs. wet & there is a huge incentive to get them lighter...."The new Honda 450 frame is 3.5 ounces lighter than last year".....OUNCES!!!!!!

How much does reliability weigh? How much does street equipment weigh? Actual, DOT approved, OE quality lights, switches etc? You want to have extra electrical capacity? You want to carry luggage?

I say you are back at 300 minimum or you start sacrificing things that will cause the mfg. problems. They want to sell bikes not replace kickstand tabs on frames because someone put 60lbs of luggage on a 300 pound motorcycle.

If you NEED this, KTM builds it. The market is small, others might shift their focus to take advantage of a sliver of this niche, but make no mistake this is a small niche.

I might also mention the EPA. You would be mistaken to think that some of the smaller MFGs play by the same rules as the big boys. Think about that too. Rumor has it that Yamaha had to give up a couple of two-stroke outboards to keep their two-stroke bikes. The people you picked to be in DC might be working against your wishes as we speak. Lol.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:15 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1tr0 View Post
There's the catch. The fact is that over the years, I've spent a lot of time and money modifying the DRZ to more closely match my criteria. At this point there's nothing else remotely like it in any showroom. Now if it was sunny out and and something on it broke and I knew about this fictional bike, I'd probably make the jump. I've got two other family members looking to replace their DRZ's this year, so they're already looking.

This is what I've been saying, yes there is. KTM makes this bike. And it comes better stock than your modded DRZ.

This is why people that ride serious dirt have switched to Euro bikes. Because you can only through thousands at a Japanese bike for so long before you are forced to try other offerings.

People need to drop the ridiculous notion that Japanese bikes are somehow more reliable simply because they are Japanese. This might have been true in the 90s, but it hasn't been true since the RFS bikes came out.

Do Euro bikes need to be maintained slightly more often? Yes, because you are getting a much lighter, much more powerful machine. It's a very easy compromise to digest once you throw a leg over a KTM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:24 AM   #131
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90% of the bikes I see in the dirt around here are KTM's.
Maybe 95%.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:28 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tiger View Post
I lost just over 100 pounds going from a KLR650 to my G650X. You can feel it in the woods, that's for sure. And loading it the bed of a high pick up.

Around 300 is manageable. Sure 250 is great, but anything under 320-330 is adequate. And some extra weight helps on the road if you commute on it.
Have you actually weighed that G650X? I would be surprised if it was 100 lbs lighter then a KLR.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:33 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off the grid View Post
This is what I've been saying, yes there is. KTM makes this bike. And it comes better stock than your modded DRZ.

This is why people that ride serious dirt have switched to Euro bikes. Because you can only through thousands at a Japanese bike for so long before you are forced to try other offerings.

People need to drop the ridiculous notion that Japanese bikes are somehow more reliable simply because they are Japanese. This might have been true in the 90s, but it hasn't been true since the RFS bikes came out.

Do Euro bikes need to be maintained slightly more often? Yes, because you are getting a much lighter, much more powerful machine. It's a very easy compromise to digest once you throw a leg over a KTM.
I had a DRZe for a couple years,threw all kinds of trick parts at it,it was plated and ran well enough for what it was.
But the weight is still there no matter what you try,and the overall slowness of the engine to get going wears thin.
And at 6' tall it simply didnt fit me when standing,even with 2" bar risers.
I tried and failed to make it do what I wanted.

I bought a 2011 530 EXCR and never looked back. The trick with the 530 is to NOT open the throttle too much or tires will go away rapidly.
It doesnt lack power or handling in any way. And cruises at 70 easily with dirt gearing.

Does the best 4th gear wheelies imaginable..............Its fun with not many mods needed.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:38 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper View Post
Funny guy I think everyone understood what I meant.....a new 450 styled dualsport based off the 450 mx machines technology would be WAYYYYY different than the 20 year old designs you're speaking of
All those new 450's are designed with a fairly short fuse,by the time a japanese factory got done homoginizing/plating one it would weigh over 300 lbs and make 30 hp if your lucky.
Its just how they do it.

KTM some how can sell a 350/530 street legal. I dont think its worth it to the asian factories to do so.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:27 PM   #135
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There's some debate between the reliability of the ktm rfs engines and a true dual sport from what i've read in the last few years. Is everyone on here saying an rfs ktm is as reliable as a klr? drz? wrr? I understood the rfs was a detuned race class motor no different than a crx or wr.... basically good for 400 hours but not open road trustworthy after that. So your inspecting and rebuilding them in under 20k. a real japanees dual sport should double that right?
This is one of the reasons that a dual sport doesn't dip under 300 lbs often. IMHO
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