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Old 01-23-2013, 09:03 AM   #31
elsalvadorklr
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Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Columbus, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steez View Post
Taking the mentality of riders out of the situation, it also needs to be noted the changing physical environment. As sad as it sounds, lots of roads have been paved in the last 20 years! Possibly this is an indirect reason, but quite valid at that. Can't vouch for the world, but the rideable ds areas are shrinking this area of the country. Do they exist? Yeah for sure! Just a bit farther... I can only imagine many individuals feel this effect as well, and are purchasing more "heavy" bikes for the ride there than before?

Whatever the current affairs of ds bikes is, however, one thing is for certain. Developers are doing the right thing (business-wise, at least) seeing as they're everywhere haha!
wow, well said

unfortunately for our small country the price of progress is losing land...and your words ring loudly...

in order for more people to have access to transportation, and therefore WORK more and more rural roads, land, and awesome terrain, sometimes virgin rainforest, etc..get paved over

yesterday afternoon while doing my weekly solo ride. I ride my usual beach up to the mountains and san salvador route...about a 2 hour climb...

I got stuck for almost an hour waiting for a bulldozing team to clear the road...halfway up it was all terraced and getting ready to be paved...all this comotion and noise...on a normal beaituful quiet scenic ride...

I ride solo all the time..and I notice a lot...the price we pay for progress is HIGH...and I no doubt acknowledge that bikes will change as "progress" gets made

history says so.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:09 AM   #32
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I had a Honda XR650L. OK but very underpowered for 650cc. I had a 2008 KLR 650. Very versatile and power was acceptable, but very top heavy and downright dangerous trying to go fast off road even with suspension upgrades. Then I sprung for the KTM 690. Awesome power, check! Great suspension, check! Great brakes, check! Handles well at speed in the dirt, check! I am not a KTM snob despite currently owning two of them. I buy from the brand that makes what I want. What would really be great is if someone built a street legal clean burning two stroke. No valves! No cams! Seems like the technology is getting close. In the 70s I had a Penton Mint 400. It was a rebadged and slightly modified KTM. A big air cooled two stroke. It was street legal too. A true nutters bike. I think it weighed around 250-270 lbs. But not really a dual sport in today's sense as you had to put pre-mix in the tank and it had a fuel range of around 45 miles!
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:11 AM   #33
OrangeYZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr View Post
I did not know klr owners rave about power, I do know that they always want more, and for a right reason...klrs are underpowered for their weight

I think we are on the same page guys, no reason to hackle me! jajaja

play safe folks

christian
I wasn't heckling you specifically, but I needed somebody to quote, and you wrote "power" and "flame on" in the same post

What I was trying to say is that the arguments about power typically start when the KLR collective assumes that the only reason to buy a KTM is "more power"
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:18 AM   #34
foxtrapper
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There's a lot to be said for new and improved, as well for old crude and easily repaired. I can rationalize either.

On paved roads, where tow trucks can come get me when I call on my cell phone, I don't mind the latest of complex wonders that can't be repaired except by trained professionals armed with an arsonal of fancy tools.

When I'm somewhere out way off the beaten path, I'd rather have a machine I can fix with a rock and two dead lizards. That's a personal preference.

Weight, power, etc have all varied throughout the years for all kinds of machines. I like them light and skinny myself. I'll willingly sacrifice power to have a machine that feels more nimble and controlable to me. Particularly for adventure type riding. It's embarassing to be stuck just because I can't pick my bike up.

That must be why I own a Harley Road King, with fuel injection. That's light, and nimble, and easily repaired on the side of the road.

Then too, I also own an old Honda XL500, with drum brakes.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:19 AM   #35
elsalvadorklr
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I see...

nope there are other reasons...wieght and suspension mostly
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:34 AM   #36
NJ-Brett
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I think emissions has a lot to do with it.
Heavy big exhausts, quiet air intakes, lean set mixtures, stuff added on like air injection, vapor recovery, water cooling to partly make for the power loss from all the above, that adds weight up high, add in some beefy long travel suspension to the weight pile.

It seems like a lot of modern dual sports are down on power from what they could produce.
The vacuum carb bikes being the worst.

With the addition of cats in the exhaust, add another 20 pounds at least, for the cat and all the metal to deal with the heat.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:55 AM   #37
Albie
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Yup emissions most definitely add weight. I'd say the stock muffler on the 690 is at least 10 lbs heavier then any aftermarket one mainly due to the cat built into it. I've probably trimmed at least 15 lbs off mine just de-EPA'ing it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:02 AM   #38
elsalvadorklr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Yup emissions most definitely add weight. I'd say the stock muffler on the 690 is at least 10 lbs heavier then any aftermarket one mainly due to the cat built into it. I've probably trimmed at least 15 lbs off mine just de-EPA'ing it.
what are you down to?

I wish I could weigh my bike correctly...
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:10 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by elsalvadorklr View Post
what are you down to?

I wish I could weigh my bike correctly...
Just take out your bathroom scale, roll on it with your bike (staying beside ..) and read front and rear wheel successively, then add the 2 values

L
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:16 AM   #40
acesandeights
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One of the reasons often overlooked with regard to weight, bikes used to be weighed dry and now it's almost universally accepted that wet weights be given. So, all (published) weights have gone up accordingly.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:59 AM   #41
wsmc831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Yup emissions most definitely add weight. I'd say the stock muffler on the 690 is at least 10 lbs heavier then any aftermarket one mainly due to the cat built into it. I've probably trimmed at least 15 lbs off mine just de-EPA'ing it.
That's pretty impressive considering the oem can on my 690 Enduro weighs in just shy of 9 lbs total and the evap canister is another lb or two. What aftermarket system yields a 15lb weight reduction?
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:08 AM   #42
elsalvadorklr
southern xr rider
 
Joined: Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krono View Post
Just take out your bathroom scale, roll on it with your bike (staying beside ..) and read front and rear wheel successively, then add the 2 values

L
jeje Ive done that, Im just not sure its accurate enough...my 88 xr600 is weighing 287 like that with a galon of fuel...

it feels heavier and Im sure it is...
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:10 AM   #43
elsalvadorklr
southern xr rider
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Columbus, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmc831 View Post
That's pretty impressive considering the oem can on my 690 Enduro weighs in just shy of 9 lbs total and the evap canister is another lb or two. What aftermarket system yields a 15lb weight reduction?
I read de EPA ing it meaning and Im assuming assorted smog stuff and exhaust emission stuff...but I agree 15 is a lot!
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:16 AM   #44
Grreatdog
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Maybe he meant the 640. The oem stainless steel Supertrapp on those must weigh a solid 25 pounds. Going with the KTM competition muffler really does shave 15 pounds off a 640E.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:00 PM   #45
dolphins13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steez View Post
Taking the mentality of riders out of the situation, it also needs to be noted the changing physical environment. As sad as it sounds, lots of roads have been paved in the last 20 years! Possibly this is an indirect reason, but quite valid at that. Can't vouch for the world, but the rideable ds areas are shrinking this area of the country. Do they exist? Yeah for sure! Just a bit farther... I can only imagine many individuals feel this effect as well, and are purchasing more "heavy" bikes for the ride there than before?

Whatever the current affairs of ds bikes is, however, one thing is for certain. Developers are doing the right thing (business-wise, at least) seeing as they're everywhere haha!
Very good point. If I could just step out my back door and ride or not have to ride so far to get to dirt I would probably have a 400 or 500 size instead of my 640e. But I have at least 10 miles of pissed off traffic to get thru to get there. The weight helps on the faster roads, 60 and up. My wifes xt 225 is scary in the rough traffic, I want my old kx 500 back. Oh ya and make it run longer between rebuilds. Love that scary power.
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