ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-30-2013, 09:27 PM   #106
acesandeights
Asperger
 
acesandeights's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: So. Oregon
Oddometer: 3,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBDRdude View Post
Look - I'm not trying to argue with you. You Love your DR650 ..I get it! I'm saying try riding both your DR and if you can hop on a Honda XR650. You'll find these are intended to be used for the same purpose, but the Honda is just that much better in the offroad element. I'm with you, I like my Suzukis, but whats real is real. If you think I'm wrong try both, you'll agree.
Again, this isn't about the bike I currently own. The only thing I love is my wife and kids. Inanimate objects are just that. I know enough to know I'll own another bike soon enough (this is my first Suzuki (owned) if that matters). But I don't know why you think I haven't ridden both and came to my own conclusion (I think I stated as much). Your FACT (as you put it) isn't mine. That's all. I've ridden an XR650R, XR650L and a DR650 and don't accept what you say as fact, that's all. You seem to discount other opinions and state yours as fact. Your opinion is probably much like your asshole. It's yours and it stinks. No big deal. You probably think the same of mine. If you're ever out this way I'll buy the pizza and beer and let you ride my DR and you can tell me how it doesn't compare to the XR you rode and we'll both go our separate ways and be happy with whatever we're riding at the time. No biggie.
__________________
http://breakingbooks.wordpress.com
http://www.kenmarshallmetalworks.com/
I may not be Rainman, but I'm not stupid eighter. Like Bartek on a taco.

I'll die with this hammer in my hand.
acesandeights is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:28 PM   #107
acesandeights
Asperger
 
acesandeights's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: So. Oregon
Oddometer: 3,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
actually i have ridden both and i've found both to be equally lacking.

the big difference is the fact that the xr's run really hot and you have to change the oil more often. That's why i went with the dr. Neither bike is a great dual sport. Both are just adequate dual sports.
+1
__________________
http://breakingbooks.wordpress.com
http://www.kenmarshallmetalworks.com/
I may not be Rainman, but I'm not stupid eighter. Like Bartek on a taco.

I'll die with this hammer in my hand.
acesandeights is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:32 PM   #108
Sierra Thumper
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Oddometer: 641
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post
Why are true dualsport bikes getting heavier and less powerful over time? "True" being defined as the longer maintenance interval bikes meant for 50/50 type riding vs. the more race oriented bikes that come with tags. It would seem that with technology they would get lighter, stronger and more powerful over time. Has anyone else noticed this?

Here are a few quick comparisons from internet data:

1984 XT 250 wet weight 275 17 hp
2008 XT 250 wet weight 291 22 hp (Note - horsepower is better in newer one for yamaha)
(Note: 2004 XT 225 wet weight 265)

1986 XL600R - 321 Wet Weight. 43 hp
2012 XR650L - 346 Wet Weight 35 hp

XR 250L - 250 dry weight 28 hp (claimed)
CRF250L - 295 dry weight 18 - 22 hp

Note - WR250 R - 295 wet weight, more horsepower - But, still heavy for a 250.
Some of your numbers are skewed to start with....honda quit quoting hp numbers years ago because it wasn't in their best interest to tout them when the euro bikes were starting to far out class them in hp. The XR650L, which has the NX650 motor in it, put out 44hp at the crank, and more torque than the XL600...to go along with the extra weight of electric start. But....it's basically an XR600 with lights and electric start, plus the XR600's suspension and disc brakes front and rear. As a dirt bike overall its light years ahead of the XL600...except its 25lbs heavier. The magic button comes at a price

The same really applies to all those examples, the XT is a little heavier, but has electric start, and again way better suspension, plus more power.

The XR250L has 28 CRANK hp compared to the CRF250L which has about 20 rear wheel hp, the power is probably a wash on a dyno, but the CRF has fuel injection (very sweet) and has 20 years of advancement in all other area's over the XR250L. But again, it has gained some lbs in the process, which is a shame.

Like some other guys have said, overall now its better than ever for owning awesome dualsports, and you can pretty much pick your poison....the only trouble is the euro bikes are where the performance is now, and they cost quite abit more than we use to pay for the japanese dual sports. But for that money you get a bike that will BLOW away any of the "oldies" in every department

Sometimes the good old days and good old "bikes" are only as good as a persons imagination. Old bike memories are like a fine wine.....they just get better over time

NOW is the heyday of the dualsport, just not from japan
__________________
"Don't get so concerned with the slab that you choose a turd for the dirt"- The Gospel as spoken by itrack
Sierra Thumper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:48 PM   #109
CJBDRdude
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
Oddometer: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
Again, this isn't about the bike I currently own. The only thing I love is my wife and kids. Inanimate objects are just that. I know enough to know I'll own another bike soon enough (this is my first Suzuki (owned) if that matters). But I don't know why you think I haven't ridden both and came to my own conclusion (I think I stated as much). Your FACT (as you put it) isn't mine. That's all. I've ridden an XR650R, XR650L and a DR650 and don't accept what you say as fact, that's all. You seem to discount other opinions and state yours as fact. Your opinion is probably much like your asshole. It's yours and it stinks. No big deal. You probably think the same of mine. If you're ever out this way I'll buy the pizza and beer and let you ride my DR and you can tell me how it doesn't compare to the XR you rode and we'll both go our separate ways and be happy with whatever we're riding at the time. No biggie.
No I just discount your opinion as yours comes across very bias toward the DR650 only. Thats ok - I don't ride either a DR anymore or an XR650. I got smart and bought a KTM, maybe you should do the same . I'm not interested in your pizza, beer, or your how your ass stinks. You seem to be the one with a problem here and thats a FACT!
CJBDRdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:55 PM   #110
acesandeights
Asperger
 
acesandeights's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: So. Oregon
Oddometer: 3,381
Alright. I extended the hand of friendship, beer and pizza, and riding (which is about all I need to like someone), you rejected it...just like you reject:

The XR650L has the same size engine, the same hp, the same size forks, both have 5-speeds, the XR is 20 lbs less weight (part of that may be due to the wet weights including fuel and oil (more capacity of the DR)), the XR is taller (higher center of gravity), and the XR has 2.5" greater ground clearance (the seat height is the also 2.5" higher than the DR). Seems the specs of the XR are the same as the DR, except it appears the XR is a DR that's been raised 2.5" (seat height and ground clearance), and the XR has 11" rear wheel travel versus the DR 10.2 (over 3/4" difference!!!, where is that 2.5" of the ground/seat height difference???).

I thought about a KTM, and I may buy one at some point, but right now they don't offer what I'm looking for (gotta be air/oil cooled ) .
__________________
http://breakingbooks.wordpress.com
http://www.kenmarshallmetalworks.com/
I may not be Rainman, but I'm not stupid eighter. Like Bartek on a taco.

I'll die with this hammer in my hand.
acesandeights is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 10:19 PM   #111
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJBDRdude View Post
So okay..I've owned many and ridden many different types/brands as well. Street, dirt whatever.. I realize after owning a DR650..its a FACT that its not as much an offroad bike as a Honda XR650. Ride them one after another, you'll obviously see the difference, especially if you've had so much experience on bikes yourself!!!!!
Funny ... you never specify WHICH Honda you're referring to ... the XR650L or the XR650R. Huge difference between the two.

I bought a NEW XR650L in '92 (were you riding yet?) and never got on well with it doing organized dual sport rides, Baja and pretty much a mix of everything. I found the bike harsh, top heavy, hard to tune and slow. (stock) On several Baja rides I saw some interesting failures with the XR650L (not my machine) when ridden hard. First off ... they run very HOT, use oil when pushed. If the oil gets low ... say goodnight. And with just a 12 lbs. pack on the rear ... the sub frame bends (or cracks). The kicker is the big ugly battery box ... which I witnessed breaking off in Bahia de Los Angeles. Tore out all the wires ... took two day to get that bike going.

I rode a XR650L "Special" that Dave Bertram (CEO of Cycle Gear) built. No expense spared. Better all the way round but still not suited to me at all. I sold off my new XR650L in less than a year. A modified DR650 is worlds better than the XR650L off road ... and turns and handles better and is way better on the pavement.

The XR650R is a different animal ... and as most Baja fans will know ... has lots of Baja 1000 trophies to it's name. It was built as a race bike, not street legal. Many many friends owned these bikes and most converted them to Street legal. I've ridden a few of them in varied conditions and like them fine. Way better than even a modified DR650 off road. On the street?
Not great. But crossing the Baja desert at 70 mph the XR650R is a rocking machine ... a well set up one is impressive.

The XR650R guys I ride with did the full Precision Concepts suspension treatment. Huge improvement over stock. P-C handled suspension work for Team Honda on all the Baja bikes ... and still do.

But as an all round true dual sport the DR650 is still better. WHY? You can't really travel on a XR650R . No real sub frame so panniers are a problem. It's is after all, a real dirt bike. ... and then you've got that pesky kick start thing. On long road trips the XR650R is wanting ... and I rode with totally tricked out ones. But off road ... truly impressive for such a heavy bike.

KTM's, Husabergs, Huskies and Beta's are in a different league off road ... a step up from the XR650R, especially in tighter, more technical conditions.
The XR650R is a high speed desert racer, not a single track weapon.

But the Euro bikes don't make the best dual sport travel bikes ... fun as they are to ride.
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 10:35 PM   #112
CJBDRdude
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
Oddometer: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
Alright. I extended the hand of friendship, beer and pizza, and riding (which is about all I need to like someone), you rejected it...just like you reject:

The XR650L has the same size engine, the same hp, the same size forks, both have 5-speeds, the XR is 20 lbs less weight (part of that may be due to the wet weights including fuel and oil (more capacity of the DR)), the XR is taller (higher center of gravity), and the XR has 2.5" greater ground clearance (the seat height is the also 2.5" higher than the DR). Seems the specs of the XR are the same as the DR, except it appears the XR is a DR that's been raised 2.5" (seat height and ground clearance), and the XR has 11" rear wheel travel versus the DR 10.2 (over 3/4" difference!!!, where is that 2.5" of the ground/seat height difference???).

I thought about a KTM, and I may buy one at some point, but right now they don't offer what I'm looking for (gotta be air/oil cooled ) .
Just because specs are similar, doesn't make them 'behave' similar. (again..my point) Both the DR & XR are more D/S oriented than my KTM.(read: The KTM is more dirt bias). And I personally prefer liquid cooling, though air cooling has its benefits> no punctured rads out in the middle of nowhere. The DR though lacks a kick starter and left me stranded more than once(electrical problems), so I had my fun on 'her' but didn't look back after selling it. Like you I'm not brand crazy, but right now KTM fits my bill. Next year may be a different story
CJBDRdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 11:07 PM   #113
tHEtREV
tEAM iDIOT
 
tHEtREV's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia
Oddometer: 6,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
You should really lay off the BLATANT TROLLING. Not well disguised at all.
Not trolling, just telling the truth...

Every Suzuki I have ever owned has been a problem, every Kawasaki has been great.

I have ridden with a lot of Suzukis that have had problems on the trail, rarely a Kawasaki.

Not every Suzuki I have ridden with has had problems but I have seen enough to stay away from them, and not every Kawasaki is dead reliable.

I had a mate with a KLX400 that gave him no end of trouble, and that turned him of Kawasakis, but I'll happily get another one as soon as I can afford to go green again.
__________________
tEAM iDIOT.

KDX Super Fan!

My Spot HERE (active and on a trip).
tHEtREV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 03:12 AM   #114
Hillbilly501
Ultra n00b
 
Hillbilly501's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Drinking from the firehose in Brisbane, Australia
Oddometer: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
I had a mate with a KLX400 that gave him no end of trouble, and that turned him of Kawasakis, but I'll happily get another one as soon as I can afford to go green again.
__________________
command R (It's F5 for mac users )

"A lady motorcycle driver, what is this, the Twilight Zone?" Homer J. Simpson
Hillbilly501 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 04:36 AM   #115
joexr
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: S.E.
Oddometer: 3,773
This whole thread has turned into my bike is better than yours because it suits me better.
joexr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 05:09 AM   #116
Ginger Beard
I have no soul
 
Ginger Beard's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Sunny Northern Cuba (aka: South Florida)
Oddometer: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post

I had a mate with a KLX400 that gave him no end of trouble, and that turned him of Kawasakis........

Hey I see what you did there!!
__________________
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." ~Edgar Allen Poe~
My HD Scram-ster build
Help Save a Pit-Bull
Ginger Beard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 05:48 AM   #117
elsalvadorklr
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: el salvador
Oddometer: 4,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Funny ... you never specify WHICH Honda you're referring to ... the XR650L or the XR650R. Huge difference between the two.

I bought a NEW XR650L in '92 (were you riding yet?) and never got on well with it doing organized dual sport rides, Baja and pretty much a mix of everything. I found the bike harsh, top heavy, hard to tune and slow. (stock) On several Baja rides I saw some interesting failures with the XR650L (not my machine) when ridden hard. First off ... they run very HOT, use oil when pushed. If the oil gets low ... say goodnight. And with just a 12 lbs. pack on the rear ... the sub frame bends (or cracks). The kicker is the big ugly battery box ... which I witnessed breaking off in Bahia de Los Angeles. Tore out all the wires ... took two day to get that bike going.

I rode a XR650L "Special" that Dave Bertram (CEO of Cycle Gear) built. No expense spared. Better all the way round but still not suited to me at all. I sold off my new XR650L in less than a year. A modified DR650 is worlds better than the XR650L off road ... and turns and handles better and is way better on the pavement.

The XR650R is a different animal ... and as most Baja fans will know ... has lots of Baja 1000 trophies to it's name. It was built as a race bike, not street legal. Many many friends owned these bikes and most converted them to Street legal. I've ridden a few of them in varied conditions and like them fine. Way better than even a modified DR650 off road. On the street?
Not great. But crossing the Baja desert at 70 mph the XR650R is a rocking machine ... a well set up one is impressive.

The XR650R guys I ride with did the full Precision Concepts suspension treatment. Huge improvement over stock. P-C handled suspension work for Team Honda on all the Baja bikes ... and still do.

But as an all round true dual sport the DR650 is still better. WHY? You can't really travel on a XR650R . No real sub frame so panniers are a problem. It's is after all, a real dirt bike. ... and then you've got that pesky kick start thing. On long road trips the XR650R is wanting ... and I rode with totally tricked out ones. But off road ... truly impressive for such a heavy bike.

KTM's, Husabergs, Huskies and Beta's are in a different league off road ... a step up from the XR650R, especially in tighter, more technical conditions.
The XR650R is a high speed desert racer, not a single track weapon.

But the Euro bikes don't make the best dual sport travel bikes ... fun as they are to ride.
well I agree 100% with this post at least...

see we all have some truths to tell and opinions...they all count...experience plays a big part here...
I rode a dr650 once...the guy put on a way big spring on the rear and I just couldnt get any traction...

he rode 2 up with his wife but was too damn lazy to adjust sag when on dualsports rides...so he would boing around all over the place

the only time I have seen an xrl and dr650 on the same ride(they are not popular bikes down here at all, and rare) its all street legal betas, ktms, and bergs...STREET LEGAL.

anyways I agree that out of the klr650, dr650, and xr650l, the better 50/50 is in fact the dr650 straight out of the box...THEY ALL SUCK out of the box, and they ALL need tweaking to your riding style, be it road, dualsport or just offroad...

anyways

as always good to see some guys from other forums chime in with real experience...it makes all the bashing and bikcering more tolerant! jajajaja
elsalvadorklr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 06:22 AM   #118
Albie
Kool Aid poisoner
 
Albie's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Upstate SC
Oddometer: 8,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly501 View Post
I know right.
__________________
Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun.

Another day, another foot injury!
Albie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 09:55 AM   #119
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
Not trolling, just telling the truth...

Every Suzuki I have ever owned has been a problem, every Kawasaki has been great.

I have ridden with a lot of Suzukis that have had problems on the trail, rarely a Kawasaki.

Not every Suzuki I have ridden with has had problems but I have seen enough to stay away from them, and not every Kawasaki is dead reliable.

I had a mate with a KLX400 that gave him no end of trouble, and that turned him of Kawasakis, but I'll happily get another one as soon as I can afford to go green again.

Did your friend know that a KLX400 was a rebadged Suzuki drz400?
__________________
BMW Motorrad USA customer service: "We make superior motorcycles and continue to improve them."
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 10:24 AM   #120
XDragRacer
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Oddometer: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
Did your friend know that a KLX400 was a rebadged Suzuki drz400?
I assumed so; thought the previous post was served up with a generous helping of irony!
XDragRacer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014