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Old 02-07-2013, 11:31 AM   #1
Smurfen OP
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4wd transmission builders?

1:
To the Mods. I wasn't sure where to post (The Garage, Some Assembly..., or even The Basement?), if appropriate please move to another sub-forum.

2:
I'm Swedish. English is not my native language. Please accept my apologizes for grammatical or other errors.
However, I do not take offence if someone feel the need to correct my writing. Quite the contrary.

I want to build my own Trike.
It'll have one wheel up front and two wheels at the rear. But I need input from 4wd transmission and rear axle builders.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:50 AM   #2
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4wd transmission builders?

This is what I want to do.

One wheel up front. Home-made Girder forks.

Home-made frame with engine in front of rider/driver (would look like a motorcycle-trike conversion).

In-Line six engine (more about that later).

Independent rear suspension with limited slip differential, and air locker.

Heavy Duty manual gearbox with low gear abilities.

I have no prior knowledge of 4wheel driving whatsoever but as I understand it the low gearing is always in the transfer case? Please correct me if necessary.

This would work, or?
It 'd be like driving a 4wd drive jeep with the shaft from transfer case to front axle removed?
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:05 PM   #3
Smurfen OP
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4wd transmission builders?

This is a ongoing long-time project so unfortunately it will take some time before I can show pics.

The "vehicle", when finished, will be a kind of Heavy Duty Adventure-Offroad-RTW-Trike.

It should be able to go 75mph (120km/h) all day on Swedish or German motorways and have a approx top speed of 90-100mph (145-160km/h).

Mostly it will be driven on gravel-roads and/or pulling a trailer at 50mph (80km/h).

It will guaranteed weigh more then 1100 lb, but probably no more than 1800.

I've heard of/seen on the "monitor" the possibility to put two transfer cases in a row after the gearbox and get some kind of low-low gearing. Anyone with some experience of this?
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Smurfen screwed with this post 02-07-2013 at 12:16 PM
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:22 PM   #4
Neil E.
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Manual tramsmission, you get my vote. You need a rigid mount differential for the independant rear suspension. For lots of travel you could do something like this: http://www.proformance.com.au/IFS_IRS_Differential.html

Help us a bit with the control layout:
Assuming a hand operated gear shift (ie stick) how about the rest?
Twist grip or foot throttle?
Hand lever or foot brake?
Hand lever or foot clutch?
Hand lever parking brake?
Since you would be sourcing parts from the automotive world, your controls will likely be automotive based.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:03 PM   #5
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Thanks Neil for the link and questions.

Interesting. May be a bit more than I need, but for a tech-nerd, who knows where it will end.

[QUOTE=Neil E.
Help us a bit with the control layout:
Assuming a hand operated gear shift (ie stick) how about the rest?
Twist grip or foot throttle?
Hand lever or foot brake?
Hand lever or foot clutch?
Hand lever parking brake?
Since you would be sourcing parts from the automotive world, your controls will likely be automotive based.[/QUOTE]

Actually, as everything is still on the planning/dreaming stage, I'm thinking of double of everything but handbrake.

Handbrake would be car-style as far as the lever but have not decided about cable or hydraulic operated to the wheels.

Carb-control will be both twist grip on the right and car-style foot pedal on the right.

Clutch the same, left hand mc-style hand control and left foot control.

Brakes I'm thinking of right foot pedal to the rear wheels and double levers on right side handlebar. One lever to front wheel double disc brakes and one lever to all three wheels with some proportion-valve.

Gear shifting I'm thinking of stick as near the middle in front of driver as possible, to be able to use both hands. This may present some problems getting approved and some risk to the drivers balls in case of emergency.
And I'm also thinking of some sort of push button control on left side of handlebar. I might have to go sequential gearbox for this to work.
I've not completely ruled out automatic gearbox, which would solve some issues with gear shifting.

The reason for going double control is I have a backup system if something brakes or I've injured a arm or a leg. It will also give me the possibility to drive standing up.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:28 PM   #6
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As for parts I'm probably going American-made car parts for engine and gearbox, but have not yet found a suitable diff. Maybe Corvette?
(I'm looking at Jeep and Truck parts)

The plan is engine-gearbox-transfer case and a very short prop-shaft (is this the proper name?, in Swedish we call it a cardan or cardanshaft) to be able to dismantle gearbox or transfer case with engine still in frame.

I want a in-line six engine and thinking of diesel or an old flathead.
I don't need performance in hp here but more of low-rpm torque.
I also want both simplicity and reliability.
A diesel engine, of the right make of course, gives both the reliability, simplicity and stamina that I want, but it will need special tools and knowledge to work on the fuel pump/system on the road.

An "old school" petrol engine with a carburettor and points ignition need no more comments for a Mechanic.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:35 PM   #7
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If you really plan to go 160km/h, you should reconsider your layout and go with two front and one rear wheel for stability. And if you're going to drive only one axle, you'd be better off with some kind of under/overdrive unit on the transmission &/or a 2-speed rear end and skip the weight and friction losses of a transfer case.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:00 PM   #8
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Thanks for your input Troidus.

Why do you think it will be better/more stable with two front wheels?

I haven't ridden any trikes but one reason, besides looks/appearance, with two wheels at the rear is that I want car engine and gearbox with reverse and the possibility to lock the diff and and get drive/traction on both wheels.

I'm not really planning on go as fast as 160 km/h. I can see no reason that I will ever need/want to go faster than 120, but I would not want the engine to run at its maximum at 120.

I will look in to the tip about under/overdrive. I didn't know this choice existed. Yeah, I've heard of overdrive but thought it haven't been used for 30 years or so.

Weight or friction losses or money will not be a consideration/issue .

I would mostly drive on roads, sometimes very bad roads, but see no direct problems with the ability to get on. But, I want the possibility to go low gear and lock the diff to get offroad traction or when driving in snow.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfen View Post
Thanks for your input Troidus.

Why do you think it will be better/more stable with two front wheels?
It's the dynamics of mass around the center of gravity. I can't give you a technical description, so I'll leave you with a practical example:

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Old 02-07-2013, 11:33 PM   #10
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So you can build anything you want, out of any parts you want, and get it certified for road usage?in Sweden?
Sounds like my kind of place!
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:41 AM   #11
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I dont think split diffs came in anything smaller than a 1.5 tonne truck. I believe the gear ratios were generally quite high. 5.XX and beyond.

Im curious about your transmission/clutch option as well, I would think that a hand operated clutch would be quite stiff to pull, but I hope im wrong for your projects sake.

In any case, sounds kinda cool, post some pics as you go.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:11 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by sidetrack one View Post
So you can build anything you want, out of any parts you want, and get it certified for road usage?in Sweden?
Sounds like my kind of place!

It isn't that easy. There are "some" rules and regulations one have to follow, but in principle, if it is not dangerous or to extreme it is possible.

I probably have to show documentation of licensed welding and maybe even x-rays and strength calculations on the frame, unless I buy a frame from a certified company, which will not be the case here.
There are frames to buy for VW-engines but as I want another configuration this will be a one-off custom built frame.

Then, if I choose to deviate from the rules in some way, there will be "problems".
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:25 AM   #13
Smurfen OP
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Originally Posted by tattewell View Post
I don't think split diffs came in anything smaller than a 1.5 tonne truck. I believe the gear ratios were generally quite high. 5.XX and beyond.

Im curious about your transmission/clutch option as well, I would think that a hand operated clutch would be quite stiff to pull, but I hope im wrong for your projects sake.

In any case, sounds kinda cool, post some pics as you go.
Yeah, because I would probably end up with engine, gearbox and diff from three different sources I have do do some calculations on which parts are suitable together, and choose items where it's possible to change gearing.

About clutch operation by hand I think it'll have to be hydraulic or some kind of "easy-clutch".
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