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Old 02-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #16
JerryH
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As much as I like Harleys (never owned one, but put quite a few miles on a couple of Sportsters) I hate their turn signal setup. I have also owned a number of Japanese bikes with "self canceling" turn signals, and wound up converting all of them to "normal" What works great on a car simply does not work on a bike. I was constantly having the signal cancel before I made the turn, having to reset it, then have it continue to blink for some distance after making the turn. You had to watch for it to cut off, so you could turn it back on again, then remember to cancel it after making the turn. Some things really do work better when YOU control them.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #17
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As much as I like Harleys (never owned one, but put quite a few miles on a couple of Sportsters) I hate their turn signal setup. I have also owned a number of Japanese bikes with "self canceling" turn signals, and wound up converting all of them to "normal" What works great on a car simply does not work on a bike. I was constantly having the signal cancel before I made the turn, having to reset it, then have it continue to blink for some distance after making the turn. You had to watch for it to cut off, so you could turn it back on again, then remember to cancel it after making the turn. Some things really do work better when YOU control them.

I would agree with that on some of the Jap bike self cancelling systems I've used, but I haven't found that to be the case with the Harley set-up. Not sure why, but I would assume that their timing is set pretty well to match my normal signaling habits. Honestly I don't even know how they function. Are they just a straight timer based system, like some Jap bikes and aftermarket cancel thingies, are or they more sophisticated than that?

Either way, for me they don't seem to cancel prematurely, or stay on too long after I've completed my turn.

The only downside I can see is that after I get spoiled to them is that when I ride my other bikes I'll probably look like some old, forgetful codger riding down the road with my signals going, and going, and going....


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Old 02-02-2013, 12:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
All right, I'll keep trying to get used to it. Weather and such is keeping riding down to a minimum right now.

Normally I do give lots of advance warning with signals. But I'm also pretty durn good at swerving around someone who just cut me off or such while hitting the turnsignal at the same time. That's the part I can't do with the Harley. It's semi-new Harley for the record, an 04 Road King.

If you haven't worked it out , the two buttons are also your hazard light switch. Press both at once. To cancel , press both at once again. You can turn them on when the ignition is on and then turn off the key and they still function.

Individual turn signal will cancel after a set distance or the bank angle sensor detects that the bike has returned to vertical after a turn.







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Old 02-02-2013, 02:07 PM   #19
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2000 FXDX, my manual says that you push the sig button and release and the sig flashes for a set period of time and cancels itself due to time, or, after you make the turn the bank angle turns it off. If you want it to signal longer before it automatically shuts off, you depress and hold the button down for maybe 2 or three seconds, and it flashes longer before it quits, the longer you hold the button down before releasing, the longer it flashes before shutting off. If you are at a complete stop and depress the button and let up, the signal will flash forever until you make your turn or manually cancel it.

I also ride an old KTM 620 dual sport ont he street and it has the sigs activated via one stalk on the left bar only. After owing the HD for a few months, I found myself forgetting sometimes to turn off the KTM sigs after turning.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:02 PM   #20
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2000 FXDX, my manual says that you push the sig button and release and the sig flashes for a set period of time and cancels itself due to time, or, after you make the turn the bank angle turns it off. If you want it to signal longer before it automatically shuts off, you depress and hold the button down for maybe 2 or three seconds, and it flashes longer before it quits, the longer you hold the button down before releasing, the longer it flashes before shutting off. If you are at a complete stop and depress the button and let up, the signal will flash forever until you make your turn or manually cancel it.

I also ride an old KTM 620 dual sport ont he street and it has the sigs activated via one stalk on the left bar only. After owing the HD for a few months, I found myself forgetting sometimes to turn off the KTM sigs after turning.
So, it has a distance signal, AND a bank angle sensor too... I wondered if it might. I noticed that it seemed to have an uncanny ability to "know" when I had completed a turn, and then also "know" when I was sitting at a light waiting to make a turn.

Of course there's no reason all this circuitry couldn't be used on a "traditional" single lever switch too. But, I'm just fine with it as is, personally.


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Old 02-04-2013, 11:53 AM   #21
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I'd also say to give it some time. Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature.

To go back to the old Japenses system of 1 switch on the left side and not have self cancelling turnsignals would be a pia for me to deal with after so many years on HD's, so I get where your coming from in getting comfortable with a different system.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:10 PM   #22
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I'd also say to give it some time. Once you get used to it, it becomes second nature.
It probably does, but sometimes you don't get the chance to get used to it - you might change bikes often, you might have more than one bike, or you might work with bikes for living (it's probably no accident testers tend to hate that system more than regular users)... I don't even care which system is better, perhaps they both have something to recommend - I just care about standards. I believe control locations and their functions should be standard and uniform: on bikes, cars and in human/computer interfaces for that matter. It just makes everybody's life simpler in the long run.
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:03 AM   #23
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As far as I know HD has had these system for at least the last 13 years.
The two button system has been around for at least thirty years.

The self-canceling feature showed up in the early 1990s.

My 1994 Sportster had the feature.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:08 AM   #24
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I just care about standards. I believe control locations and their functions should be standard and uniform: on bikes, cars and in human/computer interfaces for that matter. It just makes everybody's life simpler in the long run.


... ummmm ... let me think about this ... No.

How about we don't go 'round and dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator. How's 'bout people learn some skills and adapt to various things. I'm fucking tired of having to cater to stupid people so how 'bout we keep the variety and the dumb ones that can't learn go buy something else ... it's not like we are forcing them to buy something that they can't get their head around.

At the rate you're going you'll ban bikes because they are too different from cars. For fucks sake , what's next ... ban women because they are not all the same in bed.







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Old 02-05-2013, 05:29 AM   #25
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... ummmm ... let me think about this ... No.

How about we don't go 'round and dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator. How's 'bout people learn some skills and adapt to various things. I'm fucking tired of having to cater to stupid people so how 'bout we keep the variety and the dumb ones that can't learn go buy something else ... it's not like we are forcing them to buy something that they can't get their head around.

At the rate you're going you'll ban bikes because they are too different from cars. For fucks sake , what's next ... ban women because they are not all the same in bed.
Nonsense. Standardising controls has nothing to do with dumbing down, unless you think that learning to do the same thing over and over is somehow smart. And I have absolutely no idea how you jumped from standard controls to banning bikes! There is a big gap between things being as they need to be in order to function, and making things different just for the sake of being different.

At the rate you're going you'll have some cars place the accelerator pedal under the right foot, and some under the left - hey, you could always learn some skills and adapt, right?
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:55 AM   #26
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Hmmm... Once upon a time the "standard" was suicide clutches and hand shift too... Guess we shoulda just stuck with those "standardized controls" so as not to confuse people.

Advancements rarely come without the willingness to accept new things and adapt. Are you saying that we should stick with an inferior system, when something new and better comes along, just because it's "standard"? If that were the case, then we'd all be content to still be living in the stone age. Oh, wait a minute! Stone tools were new once too, weren't they?
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:27 AM   #27
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Nonsense. Standardising controls has nothing to do with dumbing down,
It has everything to do with it. You yourself have already admitted that you find variation a challenge. It impinges upon yours and others safety ( how you came to the conclusion that you can speak for others is beyond me ) should the need arise that one has to actually think for themselves ... lets make everything the same so people can have an automatic reaction limited to one and one only as it is easier ... fuck stupid people , stop trying to make everything homogeneous.

Did I mention fuck stupid people ?

You are the one that is recommending standardization because you cannot visualise that others do not have a problem with variety of control functions ... wanna ride one of the bikes here ? one is right side shift and the other has the one that was standardized in ' 75 for stupid people to keep them safe and most now only recognise.



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unless you think that learning to do the same thing over and over is somehow smart.
... wanna go away and think about what you just wrote and the context in which it was presented


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And I have absolutely no idea how you jumped from standard controls to banning bikes! There is a big gap between things being as they need to be in order to function, and making things different just for the sake of being different.
I'm not in the least surprised that you missed the slippery slope that you yourself advocate.



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At the rate you're going you'll have some cars place the accelerator pedal under the right foot, and some under the left - hey, you could always learn some skills and adapt, right?

... or heaven forbid , I could just as easily choose not to buy that vehicle if I feel that it doesn't suit me. I know it may at first appear to be a radical idea this concept of thinking for yourself but given time I feel confident you'll get the swing of it. Personally I could give two fucks if the accelerator pedal was in the boot/trunk ... it's my choice to buy it just as it is the manufacturers choice to build it. Market forces will dictate if they continue to sell that variation. What I don't need is some cunt telling me I can only have vanilla because the other people are too stupid.




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Old 02-05-2013, 10:15 AM   #28
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Think of it this way:

HD sells half the motorcycles that are sold in the USA each year. Hundreds of thousands of motorcycles each year.

They all have the "HD system" of turn signal control.

It's not like the system is oddball or rare. It's on half the bikes on US highways!

The system works. It works well. And it's worked for decades.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:19 AM   #29
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I just care about standards. I believe control locations and their functions should be standard and uniform: on bikes, cars and in human/computer interfaces for that matter. It just makes everybody's life simpler in the long run.
So, you like Vanilla... Got it. Do you ride a V-strom by chance?
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:18 PM   #30
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I'm not in the least surprised that you missed the slippery slope that you yourself advocate.
.
'Slippery slope': A diversionary tactic used to deflect debate from actual case to imaginary one which supports one's point. Unable to refute statement 'A', one introduces proposition 'A therefore B' and continues to argue about 'B' instead. The logical fallacy lies of course in the fact that 'therefore' part is completely unproven, except by reference to the concept of 'slippery slope' which is not a proof but simply an oratory device.
The name might also refer to the fact the technique is both slippery and sloppy - easily recognised by those able to think logically, but often slips by others, who perhaps used up most of their brain power on learning the location of various switches :)
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