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Old 10-15-2014, 06:13 AM   #1
outlaws justice OP
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Advanced Rider Training - why don't you take it?

In my Free time I teach all types of motorsports at many levels, Dirt, Street, Track etc. I have been involved in Motorsports Education for 20 years and over the years I have noticed it has always been very difficult to get riders to participate or take any type of training once they learn how to ride, and many do not get training to learn how to ride in the first place either.

I know that some groups are more likely to search out rider training programs, advanced training programs and participate in training than others, ie. from my experience BMW riders tend to be represented in advanced riding classes way above the average and disproportionately in relation to the numbers of bikes sold and on the road. In some Classes they can account for almost 1/3 of the riders in advanced classes. (It does vary by region)

So my Question is to you the riders, Why do YOU not look for and participate in rider training, Advanced training etc. Why are you not trying to become a better rider and in turn a safer and more responsible rider? If you have taken a basic Rider course for a license or to learn why did you not follow up with more and advanced training?

I like to equate rider training to our formal education, completion of the Basic classes like the MSF BRC is about the same as graduating from the 3rd grade. You did not quite school after the third grade but most riders tend to be of the opinion that the 3rd grade level of rider education is enough. There is so much more out there that can make you a better rider, and in turn might actually even save your life, so what prevents you from wanting to be better? I know some of you think, "I am a good rider" if that is the case, good in comparison to who? Don't you want to be better? Even track day guys? If you are not mixing it up with Rossi you can be better, so again whats the deal?

I am looking for the honest opinions of those who have not taken training, maybe you thought about it but just never did? Again why? Advanced training?? There is so much out there what is holding you back?
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outlaws justice screwed with this post 10-15-2014 at 06:27 AM
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:44 AM   #2
Bronco638
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Most likely because I'm not aware of any advanced classes in my area. That said, I don't actively look for them either so I'm sure there are some. If you're going to be in Chicago-land, let me know. I'll take one of your classes!
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:45 AM   #3
Karlfitt
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I have never had an MSF course.

I will be making my son take one (Go figure)

I have been to the California Superbike school twice, but that was so long ago the last one was when Laguna Seca was still just 9 turns.

I have looked into advanced training for me. Would like to do the Pridmore CLASS or Rich Oliver's class.

But time away from work and distance to the classes have prevented me from taking them

I think I would like to take a dirt riding class too.

But again, time family obligations etc...
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:51 AM   #4
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I took the MSF BRC in 1985 when I bought my first bike. The company I worked for paid 1/2 the fee. I was planning on going back for the advanced course, but my employer dropped their support. I never did take it. I have continued my education through books, (Proficient Riding, Sport-Riding Techniques, etc.), you tube videos, and advice from this and other forums. I autocross and instruct with the SCCA and have learned a lot there that carries over to motorcycles. I've been riding for close to 30 years, so have gained a lot of street smarts and, based on my survival, I'm doing OK. Could I learn more? Absolutely! I have considered a Lee Parks course, and may still pursue something similar in the future, but feel comfortable with my skills for now.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:51 AM   #5
outlaws justice OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlfitt View Post
I have never had an MSF course.

I will be making my son take one (Go figure)

I have been to the California Superbike school twice, but that was so long ago the last one was when Laguna Seca was still just 9 turns.

I have looked into advanced training for me. Would like to do the Pridmore CLASS or Rich Oliver's class.

But time away from work and distance to the classes have prevented me from taking them

I think I would like to take a dirt riding class too.

But again, time family obligations etc...
I get all that, I also think about the time away if I crash or make a mistake and feel that taking the time to learn more is worth the trade off to prevent worse.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:55 AM   #6
Vertical C
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I have done it.

I would do more but cost is a factor, $500 per day is normal here
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:13 AM   #7
Rucksta
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I've done some

Track days, off road weekend workshops, trials riding and skills development on a police closed circuit training facility including simulated pursuits,skid pan and gymkhana. - compare your skills to MC Highway Patrol Officers

All courses marketed through MC clubs as fun and delivered in spades.
The chance to behave badly with your mates under controlled situations was irresistible.

Passed on courses that presented as serious safety related etc. .... boring
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:19 AM   #8
Aj Mick
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My basic training ended nearly 50 years ago, after my old man took a couple of minutes to show me the controls of the farm motorcycle. I had my full licence about 4 or 5 years later, a couple of weeks after I turned 15.

My advanced training came nearly 40 years ago, with my my only accident on the road, a SMIDSY. Not my fault, but I realised then that safety was not a matter of my rights on the road, but awareness and common sense.

I've been muddling along since then, covering several hundred thousand km in more than a dozen countries.

I don't know it all by a long way, but I ride to get around, not to be a great motorcyclist, as do hundreds of thousands where I live now.

Over 95% of my students ride every day. None of them have had any more training than me, yet accidents are rare. We have lost none of thousands to motorcycle accidents in the 11 years I have been at PKRU, but we did lose a couple to the 26 Dec 2004 tsunami.

But there are a few who have multiple accidents. They have basic skills, but common sense and awareness seem to have eluded them so far. They are things that cannot really be taught.

I have nothing against advanced training for folks who are into developing some skill or another, but as a teacher I realise that training is not the be all and end all.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:20 AM   #9
mtnbikeboy
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Time, money. I'd love to do more training, especially off-road.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:28 AM   #10
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I am turned off by instructors that are full of themselves. 20 years,
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:36 AM   #11
el queso
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I attended a 2-day Dirtwise off-road training class which was probably the best $$$ I've ever spent on motorcycles. Lots of fun and learned a bunch. I would like to do a track day or some other road training, but it is cost prohibitive.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbikeboy View Post
Time, money. I'd love to do more training, especially off-road.
+1

East coasters don't seem to have any easily googlable off-road schools available to them in spite of the the fact that there are plenty of woods to be had.

However, anyone who knows differently could sell me a weekend pretty easily by posting a link with prices. I suck in the rough stuff.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:55 AM   #13
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I feel somewhat interested in rider training from time to time, but basically I'm a lazy guy.
It's just more fun to ride around on your own without planning, set times and someone who's telling you what to do That's not what I want from riding.
And there's the money factor of course. There can be bought a lot of gas or entertainment electronics for the price of rider training and when buying gas or electronics I know what I get. Rider training is gambling.

Riding is for fun and transportation, not for proving how much better I could be.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:57 AM   #14
outlaws justice OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walterj View Post
+1

East coasters don't seem to have any easily googlable off-road schools available to them in spite of the the fact that there are plenty of woods to be had.

However, anyone who knows differently could sell me a weekend pretty easily by posting a link with prices. I suck in the rough stuff.
I am hearing more and more the limited availability of Adventure and off-road training in the East. Not sure why this is, One thing I will look into as I get more feedback on how to help riders. (I actually went to Canada last year for a Trails Bike Course)
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:00 AM   #15
DudeClone
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not sure i need it for my type of riding. i don't do anything "advanced" on the bike and nothing ever comes up on the road i have not been able to ride through using common sense

oh, i soft dropped the bike in my carport this morning. can advanced rider training help me with that?

it does take time and money, too. i have taken the brc but did not seem to get as much out of it as some others. i guess some enjoy spending 2 days riding in a parking lot but tbh whatever i gained from it was in the textbook we studied. so that part was fine, but i could have just stayed home and read the book

otherwise i just ride everyday. i never figure what training might do for me what reading and learning from others does not. and of course my own on road experiences. ridning in the rain is something i can know more about, but will advanced rider training throw a bunch of water and oil on the ground and have me ride in it? if so, maybe i will go? but honestly probably not as i don't rain ride, really (SoCal)

i figure all that training is for knee draggers, dirt guys, cone huggers, and stoppie enthusiasts. believe me if i ever find myself doing a stoppie it will be completely by accident. and i sure as hell ain't doing one on purpose. even if it is "advanced."
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