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Old 02-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #256
Unleaded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymorr View Post
The groupthink? Really?

I can think of no other bike in recent memory that garnered so many negative comments online based on failed expectations, rather than actual riding experiences. Honda did an amazingly poor job with the release of the VFR, because they failed to control expectations. But that doesn't make it a bike every current VFR owner should dismiss. Have you ridden one? Most haven't. The looks are polarizing, I get that. Until recently, I was guilty of judging the bike on magazine photos as well. I'm no Honda or VFR12 evangelist, but it's an amazing motorcycle to ride. BIKE magazine in the UK reckons it's the "consummate sports-tourer".

I like what Honda's doing lately. Taking risks, while being accused of playing it too safe. Taking chances with styling, even though motorcyclists are notoriously stuck on styles now decades old. It takes controversy and risk and some failures to move anything forward. We may be witnessing that with Honda lately, but I admire them in their attempts.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
That is one of the things honda got right with the VFR12. Unfortunately, they got too many things wrong.
You're right, of course. Can't argue with sales figures. But at the prices they're available for now, I consider them one of the best values in motorcycling. So I bought one.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:06 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
If they keep offering shitty bikes that trend will continue! It's a self fulfilling failure. When KTM built the 950 they had a full blown Adventure, an enduro and 2 versions of the super motard. They were all very different despite sharing platforms. Here they move a foot peg and basically call it new. Might as well just be BNG.

Where is the 47 HP motard/adv/ds 500cc single that weighs 300-325 lbs wet?

Where is the 47 HP 250cc I3 that screams to 15k RPM and weighs 325?

They dumb down to the HP limits rather that aspire to them.

Honda should stick to building dull cars, the same passion as a toaster oven company IMO.
It seems like alot of people on this site have unrealistic expectations.

Those bikes are totaly possible, but no one will pay the $$$$$ they would cost to make.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:09 PM   #259
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http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fi...0n_first_look/

Opinion piece on the CTX's . Interesting read. Excerpt below...

American Honda representatives present in Chicago told us their market research shows that new riders and especially non-riders increasingly prioritize function and economy above all else. “It’s not like the old days; not so many new riders are interested in CBR600RRs anymore,” we were told. Accordingly, the CTX utilizes the same mildly tuned, 700cc parallel twin engine from the NC700X, which delivers class-leading fuel economy (expect north of 60 mpg), usable low- and midrange power, and very low emissions at the cost of some riding excitement. The low-slung, tubular-steel chassis is also identical to the NC700, which should mean the CTXes will offer neutral, low-effort maneuverability and excellent stability that makes it easy for even a newbie to master.

Read more: http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/fi...#ixzz2KSwqXFr7
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:22 PM   #260
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Ugh. It's even worse than I had thought from the profile.

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Old 02-09-2013, 09:27 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustyStuff View Post
It seems like alot of people on this site have unrealistic expectations.

Those bikes are totaly possible, but no one will pay the $$$$$ they would cost to make.

Go to any enduro and meet all the riders who pay more for orange street legal bikes. Honda can't build a cheaper, slightly heavier than a KTM EXC500 or equal to it, modern XR500r?

Come on.

Tiny Suzuki almost did that 13 years ago with the DRZ. Then they let it rot on the vine.

Yamaha came close, but built a 250f with the weight of a 600cc dirt bike.

Kawi put out a 39 HP 300cc budget bike that uses lead as wheel material and suspension from the 1970s. It still feels great on a tight, twisty road. Another $2000 in the base would have built a friggin rocket many couldn't touch on a good road.

Honda is pushing auto transmissions? Bah!
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:33 PM   #262
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Reading all this Honda marketing-speak is bad for my blood pressure. I salute you, 2003 Honda CB750 Nighthawk sitting in my garage right now. You are everything these new "commuting appliances" are not.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:15 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by dduelin View Post
Well, the 670 cc engine and DCT transmission is innovative. No one else is making anything like it. Honda is plowing a different field with this engine instead of the same old announcing the new old inline four has 3 more hp and is 2 ounces lighter compared to the same inline four from last year, last decade, last century. Wake up, the world has changed.
You do realise you were addressing this to an Inmate called Captain Yesterday?
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:32 AM   #264
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In ten or twenty years there will be almost no potential riders under 30 that have a clue how to operate a manual transmission in the USA - we are very nearly at that point already.

Lack of understanding about a manual transmission is a real impediment to some riders, and for those that barely fuddled through the basic rider course on a manual would flock to DCT bikes.

Hell, I bet once DCT/CVT bikes get cheap enough, they will become the rider course bikes.

I don't think enthusiasts make up as much of the market as other people do - casual users far outweigh them in terms of units sold. The mass of casual riders just has more purchasing power.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:21 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by RaY YreKa View Post
You do realise you were addressing this to an Inmate called Captain Yesterday?

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:47 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Ugh. It's even worse than I had thought from the profile.

Wow, is that the truth! Homer Simpson's car design was prettier than this. (I'm too lazy to post it, but maybe someone else will...)

Has Honda changed. First bike I ever dreamed of was a Honda 50. First street bike I got at 15 was a Honda 360. Owned two Honda 400 fours and a cb750f...Spent many hours on Wing, st1300,

Had teenage wet dreams about a cbx....

What made Honda's so appealing to me was THE ENGINES. Gorgeous things that were cutting edge (okay, not the 360, but it was cheap). Fast or smooth or fast AND smooth.

Now this? Half a low-revving car engine. Not a lot of power. Apparently not the smoothest thing on wheels. Covered in plastic. Tiller handlebars. Forward pegs. Mini windshield. Small gas tank. Automatic transmission.

All it needs is a bowling trophy glued to the front fender to complete the package. What an ugly bike in all aspects.

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:48 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
Not a race version of it, a real CRB250RR!

Honda guy, didn't mean to start a war with you. My family has been thru a good +40 bikes in the last 15 years and there hasn't been a single Honda among them, not since I raced 1988 CR125/250s! They must be doing something right, but none of it appeals to this moto nut and I don't think I'm alone.
I dont buy or ride Honda's either,a buddy owns the local Honda shop and he has an NC700X for his commuter/what ever bike,also has a trick RC51 and is an A level cross country guy. Im going to take a ride on his 700X just to see what the thing is like.
You cant really tell much about these bikes by what magazines say or nay-sayers.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:57 AM   #268
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I'm getting old....I know this not because of the 20 extra pounds I'm carrying around, how bad my knees ache, or how slowly I heal after doing something stupid.....no....I know I'm old because bikes like the NC700X make sense to me.

I ride a 130hp 1000cc motorcycle that sucks down fuel and chews up tires. 90% of my time on that bike is spent doing less than 60mph.

I actually like the NC700X. It's not a bike I would buy personally, as the 10% of the time when I want to scare the crap out of myself it simply can't supply the thrill. But to a new rider, or someone who's outgrown the boy racer crap and hung up their leathers, it's a great mount. Fuel efficient, great storage, adequate power for anything you would legally enjoy doing.

It makes sense. No, it is not MY cup of tea, and you won't find many at track days, but the same can be said for the Honda Super Cub. VW sold a lot of damn Beatles too.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:00 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakeeater View Post
Wow, is that the truth! Homer Simpson's car design was prettier than this. (I'm too lazy to post it, but maybe someone else will...)

Has Honda changed. First bike I ever dreamed of was a Honda 50. First street bike I got at 15 was a Honda 360. Owned two Honda 400 fours and a cb750f...Spent many hours on Wing, st1300,

Had teenage wet dreams about a cbx....

What made Honda's so appealing to me was THE ENGINES. Gorgeous things that were cutting edge (okay, not the 360, but it was cheap). Fast or smooth or fast AND smooth.

Now this? Half a low-revving car engine. Not a lot of power. Apparently not the smoothest thing on wheels. Covered in plastic. Tiller handlebars. Forward pegs. Mini windshield. Small gas tank. Automatic transmission.

All it needs is a bowling trophy glued to the front fender to complete the package. What an ugly bike in all aspects.

Cakeeater
Looks are only looks,they do affect showroom sales though. If Honda is building this for newbies and wants to make it beginner safe and all cuddly maybe that's just what it is.
Even newbies sometimes want the illusion of bad-ass'ness in some way though.

I dont want an automatic,not in my truck,not in any bikes,but that's just me. Scooter people are of a different mindset then your average motorcycle nut,I can see how scooter folks would take right to this new half car/half scooter creation.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:24 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Ugh. It's even worse than I had thought from the profile.

I like the styling - a lot.

I think this bike makes a lot of sense. I commute - a lot. Stop and go traffic with a clutch lever gets old. Heck, my left hand was aching while just waiting on a traffic light yesterday. DCT would be a major improvement, and I want it!

Small gas tank? So what? It will still go farther on a tank of gas than my current ride, which has a 5.3 gallon tank and wants 91 octane. With this bike, I would be buying 87 octane and spending less time pumping it. Add to that the idea of reducing this country's dependence on foreign oil, and less emissions, and I'm winning like Charlie Sheen!

Not exciting? Ummm, maybe if you only ride in straight lines. All the reviews I have read of the NC700X say it handles great. I expect the CTX will handle great too. Riding a twisty road is more about carrying a consistent speed, than blasting out of corners. Actually, anything with two wheels is fun and exciting. I used to enjoy riding my wife's Rebel 250.

Granted, it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea. If this bike isn't for you, perhaps you should take a look at some of Honda's other offerings.
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