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Old 02-12-2013, 05:42 AM   #361
Dranrab Luap
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Take a glance through the first few pages of Road Warriors. The 3 new Honda offering are getting a lot of traffic comparatively speaking. Honda has people talking about their bikes and though there is some polarization, people are excited that Honda is bringing in these new offerings! Count me among them.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:04 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
Take a glance through the first few pages of Road Warriors. The 3 new Honda offering are getting a lot of traffic comparatively speaking. Honda has people talking about their bikes and though there is some polarization, people are excited that Honda is bringing in these new offerings! Count me among them.
+1

Thinking different isn't just for computers.

Look at the enthusiastic reception in the motorcycle press.
Even the jaded hacks who say the NCs aren't their cup of tea
are genuienly surprised at Honda's willingness to think outside the box.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:16 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by kpmsprtd View Post
HondaFanatic, everything you say makes sense, and yet, there is something about this CTX700 that really raises my hackles. It is irrational, I know, but it's comforting to know that it's not just me. Somehow, this bike succeeds in threatening many of us who dislike it intensely.

For the record, I was okay with the NC700X, the NT700V, the old Pacific Coast, the VFR1200, and even the DN-01 (it honestly admitted that it was a glorified scooter). I like experimentation! But this bike, this CTX700, I am sorry, but it comes off as a poser of a bike, like it doesn't know what it is, like it's dressed as a woman, but it's actually a man, or something like that. Words fail me.

If I were a police officer, I would arrest the CTX700 for being an imposter. An imposter of what? Of its very own self! Man or machine, you have to proudly be what you are, and that may be where the CTX700 is coming up short for me.

My negative feelings for this abomination of a bike might be primarily due to its visual effect, which somehow succeeds in bringing all the various things that disgust me into one bike, with that exhaust being the absolute worst I've ever seen. Surely, some Honda engineers are sitting around drinking beer and smoking cigarettes and laughing: "Ha. Ha. Our marketing department sucks. We were trying to play a practical joke on them by designing the most offensive-looking bike we could imagine--but the crazy bastards actually liked it!!!"

Disclaimer: I like the 700-series engine. I like the fuel economy. I think this engine represents a good, bold idea.

this makes absolutely no sense to me. "An imposter of what? Of its very own self! "

for the record, I get it when people say they don't like the performance of this bike, or the styling, or the ergonomics, whatever. That's OK. You don't have to like it. Perhaps a KTM SMT is more your style? And who doesn't want a Multistrada? As for me, I know if I had a KTM SMT, I would enjoy it very much, right up until I lost my driver's license, or my life. And then there is the insurance on a bike like that. I don't even want to know what that would cost. And shredding a rear tire every month can get expensive too. Not to mention gas mileage and maintenance costs.

Maybe I am just a cheap old bass turd. Maybe my "logical" side is just dominant over my "emotional" side. But I think a motorcycle should be inexpensive to own and operate. The roads are not racetracks. These bikes can easily do the speed limit and then some. They can go from sea to shining sea. And they can save me a ton of money doing it.

I like the styling of the CTX700 and the NC700X, but the NC has a funky tailight floating out there under the bodywork. I don't much like that. I think it looks much better on the CTX. And I like the cowling of the touring version, quite a bit actually. If I could buy one, I would probably opt for the NC700X, just because of the ergonomics and the storage space. But I cannot buy a bike right now, which is OK. I am enjoying seeing the new products come out. I still want to see the CB500X and the CB1100, also.

and I can't wait to see the new products from Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki. Oh wait, they don't have any. Crickets.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:31 AM   #364
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Question Problem? What Problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaFanatic View Post

I started this thread because:

1) My lifelong love of Hondas (hence my screen name).
2) An excitement of new affordable product in the marketplace
3) Hoping to enjoy some rousing and possible insightful conversation about the possibility's these bikes hold


Maybe these new bikes will attract some new blood, or maybe they won't.

All I'm saying is maybe don't be so close minded.




I don't see any problem.




1) CHECK
2) CHECK
3) CHECK


rous·ing (rouzng)
adj.
1. Inducing enthusiasm or excitement; stirring: a rousing sermon.
2. Lively; vigorous: a rousing march tune.
3. Used as an intensive: a rousing lie.


And a rousing conversation ensued...

Mission Accomplished.






DN-01....

BMW F650CS...




People are expressing their opinions, providing insightful conversation.

Is it closed-minded because some of them disagree w/ you?





As far as I'm concerned, I like what I've read about the new motor.

I personally do not care for foot forward controls, so this bike's not on my list.

It seems to me that a large % of the cruiser market is obsessed w/ very large engines.

Perhaps Honda will tap into a mid-sized cruiser market, and/or attract new riders with this bike.

I wish them luck with that.





It is also my opinion that this thread is chasing its own tail...




.
.
.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:34 AM   #365
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I think that some of the harping comes as a result of a few varied standpoints:

Honda has a fine platform in the NC700 series. It provides a lot of what many people are looking for. Fuel economy is great, power is more than adequate for many street applications, and durability should be off the charts. The "not a tank" storage area is a really nice touch and exceedingly practical. Honda could do a lot of good things with this platform. Then they come out with a mini remake of a vehicle that sold horribly the first time around because nobody wanted it. I think it's fair to say that many feel that Honda could have done MUCH, MUCH better, and maybe they still will. I hope that is the case.

This bike answers the question that very few people have asked. How many people (outside of Jerry H) feel that the world needs another forward control, cruiser-ish tourer? It's not like there aren't a dozen plus of those on the market already. Especially in the US market, I tend to think that consumers will buy one that actually has the classic Harley/cruiser look (chrome, V-twin, you know the deal) instead of the CTX. For example, my local Yamazuki dealership is selling V-star 950 touring models for $7,500, non-touring for $6,500. Suzuki Boulevard 800's are in the same price range. The local Hondasaki dealer has Vulcan 900 Touring models for $8,000. That eliminates the price point/mid-displacement argument.

Also in question is the decision-making of Honda's product line manager(s). How little vision must one have to release the NC700X and the CB500X less than 18 months apart? Someone really wasted some R&D money there, methinks.

At one point, Honda was known for having the best do-it-all motorcycle in the world, and it worked out very well for them for a decade or so. Is there some reason a similar formula could not be applied to the NC700 platform? Something with decent wind protection for highway speed, a standard-style riding position, available hard bags for commuting/touring, good (not great/expensive) quality suspension for sport/performance riding, and modern looks would seem to check the boxes most people are looking for. Throw in the aforementioned great qualities of the platform (low CoG, fuel economy, reliability), and you have a winner.

But Honda's product managers don't give us that bike. They give us the DN-02.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention - great job effing up the placement of the horn and turn signal controls on the NC700X, Honda. Brilliant! Good show!

Anteraan screwed with this post 02-12-2013 at 07:49 AM
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:06 AM   #366
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checked them out at the chicago show on saturday - mainly for my wife as she is looking for a first bike. the entire honda display was packed the whole time we were there, but the forward controls killed it for both of us. otherwise she liked the naked one. she'd probably like the version we don't get here. the one with fairings was awfully ugly, though.

her favorite bike at the show was the cb500f, though. so i guess honda is hitting some buttons with people. can't help but feel that few people will buy the cbr250 now with the ninja 300 and the honda 500s out there.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:19 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by BSUCardinalfan View Post
her favorite bike at the show was the cb500f, though. so i guess honda is hitting some buttons with people. can't help but feel that few people will buy the cbr250 now with the ninja 300 and the honda 500s out there.
Agree with you there, as we don't have graduated licenses here, the cost to power/size ratios hurt the 250. Unless Honda can somehow tie the bike to Moto3 racing, it won't have the audience it has had the past couple of years. It's now the little kid on the block... tomp dd50
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:39 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteraan View Post
I think that some of the harping comes as a result of a few varied standpoints:

Honda has a fine platform in the NC700 series. It provides a lot of what many people are looking for. Fuel economy is great, power is more than adequate for many street applications, and durability should be off the charts. The "not a tank" storage area is a really nice touch and exceedingly practical. Honda could do a lot of good things with this platform. Then they come out with a mini remake of a vehicle that sold horribly the first time around because nobody wanted it. I think it's fair to say that many feel that Honda could have done MUCH, MUCH better, and maybe they still will. I hope that is the case.

This bike answers the question that very few people have asked. How many people (outside of Jerry H) feel that the world needs another forward control, cruiser-ish tourer? It's not like there aren't a dozen plus of those on the market already. Especially in the US market, I tend to think that consumers will buy one that actually has the classic Harley/cruiser look (chrome, V-twin, you know the deal) instead of the CTX. For example, my local Yamazuki dealership is selling V-star 950 touring models for $7,500, non-touring for $6,500. Suzuki Boulevard 800's are in the same price range. The local Hondasaki dealer has Vulcan 900 Touring models for $8,000. That eliminates the price point/mid-displacement argument.
That's a good point, You are probably correct - but I hope there is an audience for the CTX700.

Quote:

Also in question is the decision-making of Honda's product line manager(s). How little vision must one have to release the NC700X and the CB500X less than 18 months apart? Someone really wasted some R&D money there, methinks.

At one point, Honda was known for having the best do-it-all motorcycle in the world, and it worked out very well for them for a decade or so. Is there some reason a similar formula could not be applied to the NC700 platform? Something with decent wind protection for highway speed, a standard-style riding position, available hard bags for commuting/touring, good (not great/expensive) quality suspension for sport/performance riding, and modern looks would seem to check the boxes most people are looking for. Throw in the aforementioned great qualities of the platform (low CoG, fuel economy, reliability), and you have a winner.
Doesn't this description fit the CTX700? The only difference is the ergos, and that is largely a matter of individual taste.

Quote:

But Honda's product managers don't give us that bike. They give us the DN-02.
not really. Remember when the DN-01 came out it had some absolutely ridiculous price tag. I don't remember for sure, but I want to say $15000. Also, the fact that Honda is making a second attempt at bike with a low seat and cruiser ergonomics seems to indicate they have reason to believe they can sell it. 20 Years from now, DN-01's will be going for big bucks because they are rare. Everyone turned their nose up when Suzuki came out with the original Katana (I may have the name wrong) but now they command a high price. Same thing will happen with the B-King, if it hasn't already.
Quote:

Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention - great job effing up the placement of the horn and turn signal controls on the NC700X, Honda. Brilliant! Good show!
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:49 PM   #369
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I think I figured out what's bugging me about the CTX700. Honda has succeeded in creating the motorcycle equivalent of the Pontiac Aztek automobile. For those in markets where the Aztek was not offered, it was a vehicle so hideously ugly that it resulted in the demise of General Motors' Pontiac division.

Granted, Honda is in no danger of going under, which is good because I hope to see them finally one day use this fuel-sipping 700cc engine in an Africa Twin-type mid-size adventure bike.

Disclaimer: You may like the CTX700. You may even find it beautiful. That's okay.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:58 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by kpmsprtd View Post
I think I figured out what's bugging me about the CTX700. Honda has succeeded in creating the motorcycle equivalent of the Pontiac Aztek automobile. For those in markets where the Aztek was not offered, it was a vehicle so hideously ugly that it resulted in the demise of General Motors' Pontiac division.

Granted, Honda is in no danger of going under, which is good because I hope to see them finally one day use this fuel-sipping 700cc engine in an Africa Twin-type mid-size adventure bike.

Disclaimer: You may like the CTX700. You may even find it beautiful. That's okay.
Please don't start with a car analogy.

That way 8 pages of boring shit lies.

Since bikes got DCT/CVT, some threads are utterly fooked with car talk.

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Old 02-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Sic Semper Tyrannis View Post
And the only people "duller" than people who express their opinions about a motorcycle are the people who harp on people expressing their opinions.
Most intelligent thing that has been posted on here in some time. Mostly people complain about those expressing opinions that differ from their own.

I've come around more to the view that while I doubt this bike is for me, I'm happy that Honda is going out on a limb and building it. Maybe this bike is going to go the way of the Pacific Coast, but unlike the PC, the pricing is good and there has got to be some significant subset of folks attracted to the functionality of cruiser bikes that want no part of the over-the-top, look-at-me, loud-pipe, cruiser/Harley lifestyle.

I do wish Honda's marketing would tone it down though. Let the bike do more of the talking. And the bundling of ABS/DCT and the small tank are just plain annoying.

- Mark
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:21 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by kpmsprtd View Post
I think I figured out what's bugging me about the CTX700. Honda has succeeded in creating the motorcycle equivalent of the Pontiac Aztek automobile. For those in markets where the Aztek was not offered, it was a vehicle so hideously ugly that it resulted in the demise of General Motors' Pontiac division.

Granted, Honda is in no danger of going under, which is good because I hope to see them finally one day use this fuel-sipping 700cc engine in an Africa Twin-type mid-size adventure bike.

Disclaimer: You may like the CTX700. You may even find it beautiful. That's okay.

do you know what a Pontiac dealer calls 2 Azteks on the showroom floor?

a lifetime supply.

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Old 02-12-2013, 01:31 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
I must admit that my first impression of these new 700s is that they are targeted toward the existing rider's "little lady", who would like to get off the old man's pillion seat and on to a ride of her own. But, wants something that looks a bit pretty, has a low seat height, and manageable power.
plenty of older gentleman riders who don't want to go trike but still can't shift right and appreciate the low center of gravity. it's fuel efficient and approachable and cruising is an american thing. not my cup of tea but i'd say Honda has thought this one out.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:40 PM   #374
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I think they are a cool idea. I look forward to more, larger displacement machines with DCT. I could present my motorcycle resume here but none of you really care. So I will say, after all the years of shifting, I like the idea of an automatic. I really like the NC700X but would really like just a little more power. I also don't want to buy another Honda that may be gone quick (I have a NT700v). I will try a sit test at the Charlotte MC show in a couple weeks if they are there.
But what is with the chain final drive on all these new bikes from Honda? That's uhhhh, cheap.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:44 PM   #375
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I do wish Honda's marketing would tone it down though. Let the bike do more of the talking.

- Mark
Honda's overly ambitious marketing write ups remind me of a lady trying to convince me to go out with her very unattractive female friend, by selling all her good attributes while never mentioning her looks. I've had that happen four times in the past year. Maybe that's all they think I deserve, likewise with Honda's selling the CTX to the public. "She's got a great personality". " The CTX has a low seat and gets great gas mileage." See the similarities? dd50
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