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Old 02-12-2013, 04:23 PM   #391
dirtdreamer50
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Be careful eakins, or Ray will come after you too for talking cars, too. You win Ray. I have no idea what your post was about, so you win this one... tp
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:34 PM   #392
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VW is going beyond simple sharing some parts. It's the whole underpinnings are the same to save costs, but the external look & trim level of the car is different to distinguish the cars. From a cost savings perspective it's an amazing concept that has never been done at this level across the board.

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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
This is nothing new. Somewhere down the line, excuse pun, the Japanese bike manufactures forgot about it OR more likely didn't have to worry about it until they had "niched" their way into extreme model complexity.

Might have been OK with a Yen at 325 to the Dollar and huge sales probably kept that at bay for a while.

Datsun for instance made 1600, 1800cc, 2000cc, 2400cc, 2600cc, 2800cc engines with as many shared components as possible in the 60's, 70's and eighties. In fact those engines (4's and sixes) survived for 20+ years.

They even used the same gearboxes across the range in many markets.

Lot's of common parts in each motor. It was great if you wanted to fix stuff.

I think maybe the 50% reduction on "big western bike sales" has forced their hand although the small eastern bike buyers seem to be pretty happy with few models and big volume. No problems with sales in that market.

Anyway my hope is that this not only leads to more economical transport, which was what bikes used to be before the "race bike wars" but hopefully parts prices will drop.

The bike industry sort of went the same way as sneakers. One decade they were cheap foot ware with a few models the next they were designer life style choices with technology designed to show off and 50 models per brand.

The pushbike industry is the same. No one rides pushbikes any more. They all seem to be in training for the next Tour de France and arguing whether $5000.00 is good value or not.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:39 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Anteraan View Post
If Honda thinks the CTX will pull people off of cruisers in significant numbers, then good luck to them.
If they think it will attract the new rider (who likely took his MSF course on a standard), good luck to them.
If they think this is a move-up bike for entry-level sportbike/standard riders (N250/N500/CBR250), good luck to them.

That's 0-3.
I'd score it more 3-0 or 2-1. When I used to teach beginner MSF, many students would come up to me at the end of the course and ask my opinion about a good beginner bike. They were most interested in standards and cruisers, not sportbikes, adventure bikes, touring bikes, or dual-sports. They were price-sensitive and didn't want much to do with the Harley crowd or performance sport bike crowd. Most were very sensitive about seat height.

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Old 02-12-2013, 04:40 PM   #394
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Like VW, Chrysler did it with the Echo and PT. Same platform, just different skin. Both had their buyers when produced. Different strokes....tp
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:45 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
Be careful eakins, or Ray will come after you too for talking cars, too. You win Ray. I have no idea what your post was about, so you win this one... tp


You deciphered it pretty well in your response, then got pissy about it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:51 PM   #396
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You deciphered it pretty well in your response, then got pissy about it.
My apologies. Fighting nasty sinus/headache stuff. Makes one edgy...

dirtdreamer50 screwed with this post 02-12-2013 at 06:51 PM
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:45 PM   #397
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ctx ad on YouTube

Saw this AD on YouTube. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=YJj7t...%3DYJj7tvKGMEc
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:13 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmsprtd View Post
HondaFanatic, everything you say makes sense, and yet, there is something about this CTX700 that really raises my hackles. It is irrational, I know, but it's comforting to know that it's not just me. Somehow, this bike succeeds in threatening many of us who dislike it intensely.

For the record, I was okay with the NC700X, the NT700V, the old Pacific Coast, the VFR1200, and even the DN-01 (it honestly admitted that it was a glorified scooter). I like experimentation! But this bike, this CTX700, I am sorry, but it comes off as a poser of a bike, like it doesn't know what it is, like it's dressed as a woman, but it's actually a man, or something like that. Words fail me.

If I were a police officer, I would arrest the CTX700 for being an imposter. An imposter of what? Of its very own self! Man or machine, you have to proudly be what you are, and that may be where the CTX700 is coming up short for me.

My negative feelings for this abomination of a bike might be primarily due to its visual effect, which somehow succeeds in bringing all the various things that disgust me into one bike, with that exhaust being the absolute worst I've ever seen. Surely, some Honda engineers are sitting around drinking beer and smoking cigarettes and laughing: "Ha. Ha. Our marketing department sucks. We were trying to play a practical joke on them by designing the most offensive-looking bike we could imagine--but the crazy bastards actually liked it!!!"

Disclaimer: I like the 700-series engine. I like the fuel economy. I think this engine represents a good, bold idea.
This is kind of how I feel about almost all new cars. As someone who grew up with older cars (pre 1970) I find what they are calling cars today totally disgusting. Yes, everything works better, they last longer, at least mileage wise, but they are UGLY (especially SUVs), mostly made of plastic, loaded with electronics, emissions, and safety crap. They are so far removed from the cars I grew up with that they no longer fit my definition of cars. They are so highly refined that even the sound and feel of a car is gone. I refuse to own one. I have to drive them at work, and they are indeed very efficient transportation appliances. But nothing more. No fun whatsoever. Fortunately I own a couple of "real" cars.

Now, if you compare this bike to the '66 Triumph Bonneville I once owned, and had a love/hate affair with for 3 1/2 years, you can kind of get the same feeling. The Triumph was real steel, not plastic. It made noise, It vibrated like crazy. It looked like a motorcycle, at least to me. And in fact, had it been reliable, it would have been the perfect motorcycle.

But that is not what all the bashing here is about. You are bashing this bike, while ranting and raving about how great other plastic bikes loaded with electronic, emissions and safety crap are. Most all new bikes, especially Japanese bikes, are the same. They are all loaded with junk a motorcycle doesn't need, they are all mostly made out of plastic. They are all devoid of any character and personality (except a few cruisers)

I do have a couple of old school bikes to putter around on and work on and tinker with. And they are a lot of fun. And if I were 30 years younger, I would probably be out riding around all over the country on them. But I am reaching the age and condition where I can't take the pounding for that long at the time, and I want reliability. The only thing I don't like about this bike if the EFI. I am a carb guy through and through. And I know carbs can be reliable. I have put over half a million miles in carbed bikes without problems. But from what I can tell, it is not the EFI everybody is complaining about. So what is it? I want the naked model, and it has much less plastic than many other bikes. I also want the manual shift non ABS model. So what is so different about this bike than any other new bike? It is even chain drive. Styling? Just look at most of the modern sportbikes and see how ridiculous that sounds. They look like something out of a cartoon. This bike is much more conservative looking. It has the same engine as the NC700 that everybody is so crazy about. So what's left? The riding position. The one thing I love about this bike, the feet forward, pull back bar riding position that I find so comfortable, and the reason I have ridden cruisers most of my life, seems to be what infuriates most everybody about this bike. That, and the fact that it has these things, and yet does not look like a cruiser. Most everybody here dismisses cruisers entirely, as a class of motorcycles (and the largest selling class of motorcycles in the U.S.) They will go anywhere any sport or sport touring bike will go, and a lot of places such bikes won't go. But they don't look right, and they don't have rearsets and low bars. Here is a bike that looks like a sport or sport touring bike, depending on how you set it up, but has a cruiser riding position. THAT seems to be what has everybody all in a dither, and the main thing I like about it.

You might compare the automatic version with a scooter, but the rest is pure motorcycle, at least as much so as any new motorcycle can be. And I have no problem with scooters, I own three. You seem to have the same elitist attitude that you complain about many Harley riders having. It's not for you, so you bash it. You just cannot accept the existence of something you don't like, so you feel threatened by it.

I personally believe this bike will be great for Honda, and for a whole lot of would be riders who may be intimidated by many current motorcycles. I think the comfortable riding position and automatic transmission will appeal to a whole new type of rider, who maybe never considered riding before. But Honda will have to get the word out, if these people are ever going to find out about this bike. Though completely different, I see this bike as being similar to the original Super Cub in concept. It is not threatening and does not have the outlaw image of todays Harley choppers and crotch rockets. It actually has more in common with the family sedan than bikes like those. As a lifelong rider, I for one would love to see more people take up the sport. And this bike just might help make that happen.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:48 AM   #399
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Too much hyperbole for me.

I'm out.

Have at it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hondafanatic View Post
Sorry, I do think it's closed-minded to bash the hell out of a product
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondafanatic View Post
...level of bashing is a shocker. Do the haters here also walk into car dealerships and tell total strangers how stupid they were for buying this particular brand? Or maybe hang out in best buys on the weekend and scream at customers in the television department? I bet some here love cruising the android forums and posting in all caps "apple rules!!!"
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Originally Posted by hondafanatic View Post
what is insightful about bashing a product that wasn't built for you to begin with? ford guy "i hate chevys!" chevy guy "why do you hate them?" ford guy "cause they suck!" chevy guy "you ever owned one?" ford guy "no!" chevy guy "you ever ridden in one?" ford guy "ha! Are you crazy?" chevy guy "you ever driven one?" ford guy "kill me first!" chevy guy "uh i don't understand. Why do you hate them again?" ford guy "i've already explained this once cause they suck!"
where's all the insight the ford guy has added to the conversation?
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:58 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
My apologies. Fighting nasty sinus/headache stuff. Makes one edgy...
Brother can I ever relate to that. I am coming off of a 5 month long headache. I'm not irritable by nature, but that sure did it to me. Heal well!
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:39 AM   #401
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The panniers in this vid look full-sized, not just the slim ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RcSQrOpfvg
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:58 AM   #402
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I'm out.
...
check back in a year or 2 and maybe they make something light and quick and upright for experienced riders , maybe not cuz honda in a different world now
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:11 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
this should stop the whiners.
Well, the reason I am disappointed, is because Honda dumped time and money into creating these bikes, which don't interest me. It may be self serving of me to say that I wish Honda had, instead, put their efforts toward something that did catch my eye, but that's the way it is.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:42 AM   #404
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check back in a year or 2 and maybe they make something light and quick and upright for experienced riders , maybe not cuz honda in a different world now

This is called thread shitting. Popping in with caustic non-substantive comments has no value and in fact detracts from the purpose of the forum. Done on a regular basis it becomes an irritation. Please discontinue doing this.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:59 AM   #405
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Last night I was looking thru a stack of old magazines, and came across the Rider road test of the DN-01. I am sure we all know that Rider always tends to be quite kind in their product evaluations. You have to read between the lines a bit. Mark Tuttle wrote this article.

First, the MSRP was $15,599. That would be a deal killer right there, I mean that's more than an FJR cost at the time, way more.

Second, it offered no storage. That's a minus, but not too bad. The CTX offers a little storage, but not much. If you want storage, you're going to need to add it yourself.

Third, the windshield obscured the view of the instruments. R U Serious? Your going to have to replace the windshield just so you can tell how fast you are going? On a $15,599 bike?

Fourth, it only made 38 hp on the dyno. I haven't seen a dyno on the NC, but I think I read somewhere it made 47. Neither is a power house, but for $15,599 I would expect more.

Then there was a couple of nit picky little things, but I don't remember what they were.

On the plus side, the DN-01 has shaft drive and triple discs with ABS. And floorboards. If I am going to have my feet forward, I want floor boards. The DN-01 has dual headlights as well, which probably do a better job than the CTX' single headlight.

I would call it a pretty bad review, especially from Rider. Just the same, I wonder if the DN-01 could have survived if it had been priced like the CTX? If I could afford to collect bikes, I would like to have one of them.
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