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Old 12-31-2013, 05:26 PM   #46
rapidoxidationman
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Can a Pious battery pack go 300,000 miles+ yet?

Oh... and a 5 year, 100K mile warranty?
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:33 PM   #47
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Can a diesel turbo fan go 300k miles? Mine on the TDI died at $200k
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:35 PM   #48
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My '96 chevy 6.5 turbo diesel was sold at 270K miles (bought it at 90K). Nothing was changed on the engine except the alternator and the pump driver module

edit: the 2k5 Duramax I currently own has about 180K. No issues with the turbo so far...
edit again: my '85 Benz 300D has 215K with no turbo issues except an oil leak I have the repair kit for (about $50)
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:39 PM   #49
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Well, that proves it then. Nothing like one data point to prove the theory of relativity.

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Old 12-31-2013, 05:48 PM   #50
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If that were so, you would buy a Prius. None of these diesels come close - especially when diesel is currently 20% higher.
Oh my God! I should have spoken to you before spending my $26K! We are true economic buyers in this instance.

One recent survey pegged the average price difference between diesel and regular currently at 40 cents per gallon: at the stated average price of $3.49, that's 15%.

Our sales manager has a Prius and it struggles on the highway in general and in the hills of VT, W MA and CT in particular. Mpg drops significantly in the cold of winter. The dealers seem very proud of them. This particular vehicle will be used mostly in Northern New England, and driven 30-40,000 miles per year. We may also tow a small trailer. For the same reason we did not seriously consider the Cruze Eco.

We may at some point buy a hybrid for Metro Boston use where the car would spend more time idling at stop lights and less time going 65-80mph. The dealers were acting stupid about them but we will try again. We were initially looking at the Civic and Ford CMax. We may look at a Prius V also.

We still want to buy the new Ford Transit Connect but it is not available yet.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:48 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by rapidoxidationman View Post
Can a Pious battery pack go 300,000 miles+ yet?

Oh... and a 5 year, 100K mile warranty?
I don't know, how many Volkswagens go 300k? I wouldn't even want to ask about the Chevy.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/n...d-up/index.htm

But the question is fundamentally wrong, Prius battery life would depend on how much city driving one does, where it handily creams the diesel and earns its keep. Even on the highway, the Prius ice still beats the diesels. And we still haven't factored in 20%(!) higher fuel costs. Then it turns out, the Prius also has good resale value.
I don't like Prius, I dislike the early adopters, and I would not buy one, but if I had a business need and economy was the overriding factor as Garandman claimed, the Prius wins easily.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:54 PM   #52
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Well, you sure do like to argue! I take it you are a Millenial?

Actual mileage achieved by hybrids in New England winters is much less than the benign climate of, say, Northern California. The first thing we had to check was if anyone had been able to start a Cruze diesel at -25F. Turns out it comes with an extremely powerful battery.

Edmunds.com gives the five year True Cost of Ownership for a 2013 Prius V as $46,045.

They did not have data for a Cruze Diesel but they did have data for a Cruze and a Jetta TDI. Both were over $10,000 less: TDI was $33,505, Cruze up to $35,311 depending on model.

Their estimate is based on much lower yearly mileage than we will actually drive, but it is the same for them all.

I'll let you know how it turns out for us in five years from Thursday.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Well, you sure do like to argue! I take it you are a Millenial?

Actual mileage achieved by hybrids in New England winters is much less than the benign climate of, say, Northern California. The first thing we had to check was if anyone had been able to start a Cruze diesel at -25F. Turns out it comes with an extremely powerful battery.

Edmunds.com gives the five year True Cost of Ownership for a 2013 Prius V as $46,045.

They did not have data for a Cruze Diesel but they did have data for a Cruze and a Jetta TDI. Both were over $10,000 less: TDI was $33,505, Cruze up to $35,311 depending on model.

Their estimate is based on much lower yearly mileage than we will actually drive, but it is the same for them all.

I'll let you know how it turns out for us in five years from Thursday.
The Prius V is an entirely different car than the Cruze or the TDI. Primarily, in its size. My Gen II Prius ('07) is a mid-size, and the Gen III is even larger. The Prius V is even larger than that - a mid sized wagon. It also stickers easily $5k higher than the Cruze, or TDI.

My wife owns a '12 TDI wagon. In the winter, my mileage comes down a bit, from 46-50 to 43-47. The TDI is also good, usually getting about 3-5 mpg less than the Prius. We take both cars up to my wife's folks place near the Finger Lakes, in upstate NY. Both perform quite well on cold mornings, when it's well below zero. Both cars mileage drops in the mountains. But, when one has the cruise control tacked on 70mph coming over Bloss Mountain or Steam Valley in PA, that's going to happen.

The TDI is a more fun car to drive. The handling is sharper, it accelerates harder, and just feels more planted than the Prius. The Prius has been solid player. Its only needed one thing in the 7 years I've owned it - a new rear hatch release. It's solenoid powered. The failure was my fault. One time when I was loading a bunch of crap in the back of the car, I ripped the weatherstripping. Over the next few months, rain water worked its way in, and corroded the solenoid. Other than that, it's needed nothing other than oil, filters, tires, and fuel in 75k mi.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:36 PM   #54
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Well, you sure do like to argue! I take it you are a Millenial?
Well, when you brush off a review by R&T by claiming "college grads" couldn't possibly understand economy..... and I can't say I know what is a millenial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman View Post
They did not have data for a Cruze Diesel but they did have data for a Cruze and a Jetta TDI. Both were over $10,000 less: TDI was $33,505, Cruze up to $35,311 depending on model.

Their estimate is based on much lower yearly mileage than we will actually drive, but it is the same for them all..
Comparing apples-to-apples, I get much different results. Sticking point for the Prius seems to be $700/year in higher insurance premiums, but look at those fuel savings...so the more miles you drive, the better the Prius looks. And if you were to replace the Cruze Eco with the diesel, instantly add $5k... http://www.edmunds.com/car-compariso...atorId=8723601
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:25 AM   #55
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Can a Pious battery pack go 300,000 miles+ yet?

Oh... and a 5 year, 100K mile warranty?
There are a lot of them running as taxis in LA and I was in a few with 200k+. All still had the original batteries. I asked.

The stereotype of the Prius owners might piss you off but they are solid cars.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:24 AM   #56
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//My wife owns a '12 TDI wagon. In the winter, my mileage comes down a bit, from 46-50 to 43-47. The TDI is also good, usually getting about 3-5 mpg less than the Prius. We take both cars up to my wife's folks place near the Finger Lakes, in upstate NY. Both perform quite well on cold mornings, when it's well below zero. Both cars mileage drops in the mountains. But, when one has the cruise control tacked on 70mph coming over Bloss Mountain or Steam Valley in PA, that's going to happen./
Good info. You are getting substantially higher mileage on both vehicles than the owners I canvassed for both vehicles: we have employees with both. The Cruze is not particularly entertaining to drive, I'm told: I'll let you know tomorrow. I'm picking it up in the teeth of a substantial snow storm so getting some snow tires on it is job one.

The Prius V-3 seemed to have a similar price to the Cruze diesel, in the mid-high twenties. As mentioned we may choose that or something similar for our next purchase. I used that as an example as we think it would work well for us.

It is not really larger. The Prius V is 181.7" long. The Cruze is 181" long. The Cruze is 0.9" wider and a few inches lower. The front seats which were our primary concern are almost identical I n specs as well. The TDI sedan is also almost identical in size.

We can't use a coal-burner to power our house, though.

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There are a lot of them running as taxis in LA and I was in a few with 200k+. All still had the original batteries. I asked. The stereotype of the Prius owners might piss you off but they are solid cars.
This is very true. The Prius owner at work is an MSME and bought it as an experiment as well. He really likes it other than running out of beans at max commuter speeds and being doggy in the mountains. I have a friend who was an early Prius adopter and has had very few problems, none serious. We see a lot of Prius, Camry Hybrid and Ford CMax as taxis in Boston these days. But no plow trucks....

Apropos of the interests of this board.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:36 AM   #57
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Please keep us updated how it works out as the company car. (And if you did buy the Prius also, that would be a fascinating back to back comparison.)
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:52 AM   #58
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Please keep us updated how it works out as the company car. (And if you did buy the Prius also, that would be a fascinating back to back comparison.)
We like such experiments and having a small company fleet allows me to conduct them.

For example, we currently have two mechanically identical Honda Accord V6's. One was run from day one with Dino oil, the other with Mobil One synthetic. We change both at the factory recommended 7,500 miles. Our last oil analysis will be conducted when both hit 180,000 miles this spring.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:01 AM   #59
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Comparing apples-to-apples, I get much different results. Sticking point for the Prius seems to be $700/year in higher insurance premiums,
Wow! What's your insurance profile? The premium on my Prius is $850/yr. total with full coverage, and high liability limits.

You might want to shop around. . . .
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:55 AM   #60
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PM says the apples-to-apples price delta over the same model with gas engine is $2,390.

We did some calculations using 33mpg combined fuel economy, 3.49 for gas and 3.89 for diesel. A gasser getting 29.6mpg would have equal fuel costs. We expect 80%+ of the miles to be highway so we should average in the high 30's.
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