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Old 01-04-2014, 01:23 PM   #76
wyowillys46
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Good on Chevy for bringing another diesel into the domestic market. Hopefully it was designed by Isuzu. I've only got three issues with it though:

1. It's a GM product.
2. The Cruze is boring as hell.
3. It's a GM product.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:49 PM   #77
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A partial amendment to my rant quoted above, now that the car has hit the market:

1) The diesel premium isn't that much at $2000, and is packaged with nice features like an automatic and leather interior.

2) It's getting reasonably favorable reviews.

If I had the discipline to keep a car from birth to death (or at the very least significant deterioration) I'd consider the Cruze diesel. It can't possibly be any worse than some of the $5k HPFP failures I'm reading about on later model Jetta TDI's
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:10 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
It can't possibly be any worse than some of the $5k HPFP failures I'm reading about on later model Jetta TDI's
That's what I'm afraid of, that it could be worse

There's an aftermarket "damage limiter" kit out now for the HPFP issues, and VW has a next gen diesel ready to roll, hopefully incorporating some of the lessons.

I think the real reason for the HPFP problem here is VW cheaped out on the fuel pump spec to Bosch, they supposedly spec much more rugged pumps on the same gen diesels sold in developing markets such as China which are expected to have lower fuel quality.
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:17 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Commuter Boy View Post

I think the real reason for the HPFP problem here is VW cheaped out on the fuel pump spec to Bosch, they supposedly spec much more rugged pumps on the same gen diesels sold in developing markets such as China which are expected to have lower fuel quality.

I can't believe the US wouldn't get the best quality pump, since Euro engineers are constantly complaining about the poor quality of US fuel.

Cruze diesels are marked down $1500 on my local dealer's website.....they've never shown anything but MSRP in the 15 years I've lived here.
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:01 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by jdiaz View Post
I can't believe the US wouldn't get the best quality pump, since Euro engineers are constantly complaining about the poor quality of US fuel.

Cruze diesels are marked down $1500 on my local dealer's website.....they've never shown anything but MSRP in the 15 years I've lived here.
That's a potential indicator of what I think could be the ultimate consumer reaction. I would like to think most of the potential econo-diesel buying consumers don't know about/don't remember the GM diesel nightmares of yore, but even if they don't I'm not sure there is enough of a market here for the TDI and the diesel cruze. This is further complicated by the fact that they don't offer a more sparsely equipped manual trans model. This is a smaller car. Many who would buy a diesel in this size segment are looking for a lower purchase price.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:18 PM   #81
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Let me get this straight: The Cruze Diesel burns fuel that is up to 25% more expensive but gets the same 42 mpg that the Cruze eco gasser gets, and the diesel version costs thousands more to purchase. Got it.

Way to go GM. You've re-entered the passenger car diesel market for the first time in a quarter century and right out of the gate you offer no quantifiable advantage whatsoever for driving an oil burner. All you need now is a track record to rival your previous generation converted Olds 350 Diesel and you can kill the passenger car diesel market in North America all over again
  • The Opel diesel used in the Cruze TD has been available in Europe for many years. About 40 percent of the model sold in Europe are diesels. This is entirely consistent with the afford and GM strategy of building world cars.
  • Diesel fuel is not 25% more expensive. It's about 15%. On my first partial fill. I averaged 41mpg. Adjusting for fuel price a gasser would need to get 36.9.
  • The TD has a lot of standard features that don't compare directly with the lowest-cost model. According to popular mechanics, the price uplift for the Turbodiesel is just under $3,000.
  • It does not get the same 42mpg the Cruze Eco gets: it gets 46 highway and has just about double the amount of torque.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:33 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
This is further complicated by the fact that they don't offer a more sparsely equipped manual trans model. This is a smaller car. Many who would buy a diesel in this size segment are looking for a lower purchase price.
Yep. I don't need electronics or bling.
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Old 01-05-2014, 01:24 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by wyowillys46 View Post
Good on Chevy for bringing another diesel into the domestic market. Hopefully it was designed by Isuzu. I've only got three issues with it though:

1. It's a GM product.
2. The Cruze is boring as hell.
3. It's a GM product.
Yet you post in this thread about a vehicle you've never driven, Mr. Ural Driver....

I could be driving my WRX this week. Instead, I'm driving the Cruze TD. It is possible I am easily amused, or that others are drawing emotional conclusions and then looking for facts to justify those feelings. Most likely, both. But I can understand how you feel: there are a lot of people who have crossed Fiat-Jeep off their lists as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiaz View Post
I can't believe the US wouldn't get the best quality pump, since Euro engineers are constantly complaining about the poor quality of US fuel.

Cruze diesels are marked down $1500 on my local dealer's website.....they've never shown anything but MSRP in the 15 years I've lived here.
The Diesel used was just updated a few years ago. But the U.S. Spec engine was upgraded specifically to handle the wider temperature range that we face in the US relative to most of Europe. I've had it less than a week and I've already had 0° F cold starts. The U.S. model got ceramic injectors: the wait time for the glow plugs hasn't been more than a couple of seconds. My wife said "If it wasn't for the diesel clatter at idle, no one would ever know this is a diesel."

Prices - post it up? $500 off here. $2,900 off here!

All U.S. diesel incentives per Edmunds.

The Cruze Diesel is now the 4th best selling diesel in the US. That's like being "the world's biggest midget" as that's 500 or 600 cars a month. But sales of the TD are up and most people don't know the cars exists. The first news reports were last March or so, the first magazine tests during the summer, and the car was not available for sale until October in most places. There was a promotion through January 2nd for $500 to $1,500 off: presumably that will be put back in place for January and February, traditionally slow selling months.

The Car & Driver comparison with the Jetta TDI really helped as they showed that right out of the box it was competitive with the Jetta TDI. That is what convinced me to give it a go.

The Popular Mechanics review also seems influential although I didn't see it until later.

Canadian couple goes on 54.7mpg cross-Canada journey.

Quote:
Oh, Canada, indeed. A husband-and-wife team set out to see what kind of fuel economy numbers they could get out of a Chevrolet Cruze Diesel on a transcontinental drive, and they ended up hitting some pretty impressive numbers. The team, according to their Driving.ca blog, averaged 4.3 liters of fuel use per 100 kilometers for their 5,956-kilometer (3,701-mile) jaunt from Vancouver to Halifax. That maps out to about 55 miles per gallon. And the drivers weren't total slow pokes, averaging about 50 miles per hour for the trip.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:18 AM   #84
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I for one am really happy we're seeing more diesels in NA. I own 2 VW diesels, a 2010 Golf TDI and a 2012 Touareg TDI. The Golf was my gateway drug.

The differences for me are the power, and fuel economy. I regularly rent cars for work and that is when I notice how the diesel's torque lends itself to the way I drive. Acceleration in the city or urban areas suits diesels so well. The 4 and 6 cyl gas cars I rent always kick down and hunt for gears, while the diesel feels like the hand of god shoving you along.

The fuel economy is great. I track using fuelly and the golf gets about 30mpg (all pure city stop and go driving) and the Touareg gets about 22 (same conditions). That is significantly better than my previous cars. on the highway, at 70mph my golf gets 40mpg or better and the Touareg is right around 31.

I would consider a Cruze, in fact next time I need to rent, I'm going to ask for a cruze. They won't have a diesel, but maybe I'll like the cruze platform...Any competition is better for us all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Yet you post in this thread about a vehicle you've never driven, Mr. Ural Driver....

I could be driving my WRX this week. Instead, I'm driving the Cruze TD. It is possible I am easily amused, or that others are drawing emotional conclusions and then looking for facts to justify those feelings. Most likely, both. But I can understand how you feel: there are a lot of people who have crossed Fiat-Jeep off their lists as well.

The Diesel used was just updated a few years ago. But the U.S. Spec engine was upgraded specifically to handle the wider temperature range that we face in the US relative to most of Europe. I've had it less than a week and I've already had 0° F cold starts. The U.S. model got ceramic injectors: the wait time for the glow plugs hasn't been more than a couple of seconds. My wife said "If it wasn't for the diesel clatter at idle, no one would ever know this is a diesel."

Prices - post it up? $500 off here. $2,900 off here!

All U.S. diesel incentives per Edmunds.

The Cruze Diesel is now the 4th best selling diesel in the US. That's like being "the world's biggest midget" as that's 500 or 600 cars a month. But sales of the TD are up and most people don't know the cars exists. The first news reports were last March or so, the first magazine tests during the summer, and the car was not available for sale until October in most places. There was a promotion through January 2nd for $500 to $1,500 off: presumably that will be put back in place for January and February, traditionally slow selling months.

The Car & Driver comparison with the Jetta TDI really helped as they showed that right out of the box it was competitive with the Jetta TDI. That is what convinced me to give it a go.

The Popular Mechanics review also seems influential although I didn't see it until later.

Canadian couple goes on 54.7mpg cross-Canada journey.
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:24 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
  • The Opel diesel used in the Cruze TD has been available in Europe for many years. About 40 percent of the model sold in Europe are diesels. This is entirely consistent with the afford and GM strategy of building world cars.
  • Diesel fuel is not 25% more expensive. It's about 15%. On my first partial fill. I averaged 41mpg. Adjusting for fuel price a gasser would need to get 36.9.
  • The TD has a lot of standard features that don't compare directly with the lowest-cost model. According to popular mechanics, the price uplift for the Turbodiesel is just under $3,000.
  • It does not get the same 42mpg the Cruze Eco gets: it gets 46 highway and has just about double the amount of torque.
You do know the post of mine you quoted was dated before the car was released, right? That's why I posted an amendment yesterday after getting to read about some real world testing of the car.
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Old 01-05-2014, 08:01 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Attico View Post
I for one am really happy we're seeing more diesels in NA. I own 2 VW diesels, a 2010 Golf TDI and a 2012 Touareg TDI. The Golf was my gateway drug.

The differences for me are the power, and fuel economy. I regularly rent cars for work and that is when I notice how the diesel's torque lends itself to the way I drive. Acceleration in the city or urban areas suits diesels so well. The 4 and 6 cyl gas cars I rent always kick down and hunt for gears, while the diesel feels like the hand of god shoving you along.

The fuel economy is great. I track using fuelly and the golf gets about 30mpg (all pure city stop and go driving) and the Touareg gets about 22 (same conditions). That is significantly better than my previous cars. on the highway, at 70mph my golf gets 40mpg or better and the Touareg is right around 31.

I would consider a Cruze, in fact next time I need to rent, I'm going to ask for a cruze. They won't have a diesel, but maybe I'll like the cruze platform...Any competition is better for us all.
I've been using it in the city over the weekend and will be driving mostly highway next week for the first full tank of fuel.

What will make this experiment very interesting is that one of our salespeople purchased a Jetta TDI last week as well, and will be using it similarly. So we will have some very head-to-head info. Depending on how our year-end finances work out, we may also replace one of our older cars with a hybrid as well, so we can really compare them.

I agree with your assessment that diesels are very well suited for typical commuter traffic use. Keeping up with fast moving highway traffic is easy and you are still getting big economy numbers. I am enjoying driving it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
You do know the post of mine you quoted was dated before the car was released, right? That's why I posted an amendment yesterday after getting to read about some real world testing of the car.
Yes. The $2,000 price premium you referenced is less clear: it is closer to $3,000. The trim level is like the 2LT, but with some diesel-specific features on top of that. It's not really apples to oranges even with the 2LT because the Diesel has the more sophisticated rear suspension of the LTZ and a some of the features of the Eco model, like the lower fascia opening that opens and closes depending on engine temp.

The one we bought had a couple of optional packages with navigation, backup camera etc. Supposedly the price difference versus a similarly-equipped Jetta TDI is about $600.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:24 AM   #87
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Comparison: The Big Test: 2013/2014 Hybrid and Diesel Sedans
Chevrolet Cruze 2.0TD vs.Honda Civic Hybrid vs. Toyota Prius vs. Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid vs.Volkswagen Jetta TDI


Quote:
5th Place: Chevrolet Cruze Diesel
Live next to the freeway? Only ever drive on the freeway? Never have to use the back seat? This is your car.
Our office is indeed next to the highway and we won't be using the rear seat very often, though I have already had five adults in it.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:13 PM   #88
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I could really see getting a new car later in 2014. Thanks Garandman for the reports. It has put Cruze Diesel on the "shop" list.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:34 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by garandman View Post
Yes. The $2,000 price premium you referenced is less clear: it is closer to $3,000. The trim level is like the 2LT,

Everyone likes to go on and on about the 'price premium'. While I do agree it is real, the value will hold. Price pretty much any used diesel vehicle vs. the gas model of the same type. I'm willing to bet that the premium will carry through to resale.

Go price used diesel trucks. You'd think they were plated with gold.

The reason we went with a new TDI wagon was the fact that even 3 or 4 year diesels were going for only $3k - $4k less than a new vehicle. IMO, not worth it. So, we opted for a new one, with a full warranty, and my wife got her first ever brand new car, and got to pick all the options. The smile on her face was worth it.
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Old 01-06-2014, 05:41 PM   #90
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I could really see getting a new car later in 2014.
Haven't you said that every year?
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