ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > Parallel Universe
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-03-2013, 04:53 AM   #541
roger 04 rt
Beastly Adventurer
 
roger 04 rt's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Oddometer: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish71 View Post
2013 F800GS
8000km
Remus Hexacone, restrictor/silencer still fitted
Unifilter hi flow foam air filter
Remus catless header
PCV and Auto Tune

Initial curve is the above fitted, with the map downloaded from PC website for hexacone and air filter -No Auto Tune
Second curve is custom tune after a day on the dyno - No Auto Tune
Not a big difference power wise (~2kw), but a big difference in mid level response.

For what its worth, my "tuner" pulled the airbox apart, looked at all the air bleed system, and based on his experience decided it did not need plugging.

Thanks for posting your dyno chart. It makes a good discussion item.

I'm guessing your tuner measured AFR at the tailpipe, or were they able to use your Wideband O2 sensor for the AFR plot?

When they said they didn't need to plug SAS, did they give any insight it to why they believed that?

I don't think it is important for the power curve but AFR is really a measurement of how much or little oxygen is in the exhaust. If you don't plug it, there will be more oxygen since that is its purpose. That will certainly affect the AFR reading, maybe even explaining the AFR "bump" around 4500 RPM.

You mentioned better mid-range is that something you see on the chart or feel when you ride?

Last question, was your BMSK reset or has the battery been disconnected before tuning? I wondering what state the Adaptation Values were in. This is something that tuners seem to overlook when installing a PCV. I've seen a 10-20% variation in fueling based on their set/reset status.

RB
roger 04 rt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 06:41 PM   #542
Hamish71
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Hamish71's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Australia
Oddometer: 392
OK, some of this I can answer, some of this I didnt ask.

1. Used the wideband sensor - i know this because he was having trouble with the auto tune (ended up replacing the can cable) and but could see the 02 sensor was working.
2. as for plugging SAS, well, we had a conversation before the tune that started with him saying that his first job was to pull everything apart and check it out, to see if he needed to plug it or not. He simply said that some bikes the tune is more stable with, and some without. I stated what I had read here, and he simply said he would have a look. When I got the bike back, he said that the best tune was without it being plugged and thats what state I got it in. I didnt question why.
3. I didnt ask about the battery, nor do I know if the bmsk has been reset.
4. midrange is butt dyno....definitely sharper mid range, and sounds crisper.
__________________
Now: 13 F800GS, Kalamata Olive, with all the fruit!
Previous: 08 F800GS, 09 KTM 300EXC, 05 KTM 450EXC
Hamish71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2013, 07:18 PM   #543
ebrabaek OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: El Paso,NM
Oddometer: 4,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish71 View Post
OK, some of this I can answer, some of this I didnt ask.

1. Used the wideband sensor - i know this because he was having trouble with the auto tune (ended up replacing the can cable) and but could see the 02 sensor was working.
2. as for plugging SAS, well, we had a conversation before the tune that started with him saying that his first job was to pull everything apart and check it out, to see if he needed to plug it or not. He simply said that some bikes the tune is more stable with, and some without. I stated what I had read here, and he simply said he would have a look. When I got the bike back, he said that the best tune was without it being plugged and thats what state I got it in. I didnt question why.
3. I didnt ask about the battery, nor do I know if the bmsk has been reset.
4. midrange is butt dyno....definitely sharper mid range, and sounds crisper.
That substantiate my findings as well. I tried hard to like the sas disconnected....... but after hundreds of miles it became very evident that it should be left alone (stock) is there any way you could ask the tuner if he has any of the tunes data. I would love to see that. The issue on the 800 is that we don't know it enough, but as I felt a very clear difference. ...one cannot argue with success.
__________________


Erling
ebrabaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 04:33 AM   #544
roger 04 rt
Beastly Adventurer
 
roger 04 rt's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Oddometer: 2,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish71 View Post
OK, some of this I can answer, some of this I didnt ask.

1. Used the wideband sensor - i know this because he was having trouble with the auto tune (ended up replacing the can cable) and but could see the 02 sensor was working.
2. as for plugging SAS, well, we had a conversation before the tune that started with him saying that his first job was to pull everything apart and check it out, to see if he needed to plug it or not. He simply said that some bikes the tune is more stable with, and some without. I stated what I had read here, and he simply said he would have a look. When I got the bike back, he said that the best tune was without it being plugged and thats what state I got it in. I didnt question why.
3. I didnt ask about the battery, nor do I know if the bmsk has been reset.
4. midrange is butt dyno....definitely sharper mid range, and sounds crisper.
Thanks for the follow up. From the dozens of richer fueled bikes we've worked on, the most frequent comments we get after adding fuel by richening the mixture are: much better mid-range and smoother engine.
roger 04 rt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 09:43 AM   #545
itsatdm
Beastly Adventurer
 
itsatdm's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Nor Ca.
Oddometer: 4,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
That substantiate my findings as well. I tried hard to like the sas disconnected....... but after hundreds of miles it became very evident that it should be left alone (stock) is there any way you could ask the tuner if he has any of the tunes data. I would love to see that. The issue on the 800 is that we don't know it enough, but as I felt a very clear difference. ...one cannot argue with success.

I know it is Wikipedia and generic, but the early system they are describing with its flap valve and exhaust port injection sure sounds like the one on the BMW F800gs.

If it is, then most if not all the air injection takes place at idle.
__________________
BMW Motorrad USA customer service: "We make superior motorcycles and continue to improve them."
itsatdm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #546
ebrabaek OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: El Paso,NM
Oddometer: 4,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I know it is Wikipedia and generic, but the early system they are describing with its flap valve and exhaust port injection sure sounds like the one on the BMW F800gs.

If it is, then most if not all the air injection takes place at idle.
I would sure like to be able to one day get to the bottom of this, as I understand what Roger is saying. On Cali DRZ models it is called PAIR system, and yields better results with it disconnected. There was no comparison on my bike. It ran like crap with it disconnected. That is the part I dont get. My tuner stated that he did not think there would be perhaps miniscule if any gains by disconnecting it. This was after the tune. But why it runs better with it open...... I am stumped.
Seems like the Ozzy tuner came to the same results.
__________________


Erling
ebrabaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2013, 09:31 PM   #547
Hamish71
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Hamish71's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Australia
Oddometer: 392
Follow up....after a week or so, I can say that my bike runs beautfully. Initially some pop and crackle on over run, but that all seems to have gone away now....and definitely better midrange. There is a definitie surge in acceleration in midrange, when compared with before.

Me likey!
__________________
Now: 13 F800GS, Kalamata Olive, with all the fruit!
Previous: 08 F800GS, 09 KTM 300EXC, 05 KTM 450EXC
Hamish71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 07:21 AM   #548
SOP Dirt-Rider
Studly Adventurer
 
SOP Dirt-Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Oddometer: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I know it is Wikipedia and generic, but the early system they are describing with its flap valve and exhaust port injection sure sounds like the one on the BMW F800gs.

If it is, then most if not all the air injection takes place at idle.
I do wonder if it is at idle/off throttle? I do know that pre plugging if I wanted to avoid the decel cackle all I had to do was slowly roll off throttle as I was coming to a stop.
SOP Dirt-Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 10:15 AM   #549
gbtw
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Zoetermeer, Netherlands
Oddometer: 124
Man i had hoped the tune stopped the annoying shutoff problem i was having before, reason i wanted to get it tuned was the following happen 5 times in 1 hour, sometimes on or before roundabouts.

But it is back This was 3 times in one day
gbtw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 10:59 AM   #550
ebrabaek OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: El Paso,NM
Oddometer: 4,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbtw View Post
Man i had hoped the tune stopped the annoying shutoff problem i was having before, reason i wanted to get it tuned was the following happen 5 times in 1 hour, sometimes on or before roundabouts.

But it is back This was 3 times in one day
A few Q's..... You might have mentioned this before, but as the thread grows longer...... Only pc-5.... no AT correct...???? Could you post the base map with the corrections.....?????? Exhaust configuration.....????? I get a pop....once in a while around 3000 rpm, but only one, as I suspect it is the SAS enrichment playing tricks. Only happens at 3K, and only one pop. So we just need to look at what you got.
__________________


Erling
ebrabaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 11:32 AM   #551
jengel451
1 Cool MotherF#$cker
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Eastern WA
Oddometer: 681
Wild, I just put a Leo exhaust on and have experienced that exact situation in the video 3 times now. Nothing before it.
jengel451 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 11:50 AM   #552
gbtw
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2012
Location: Zoetermeer, Netherlands
Oddometer: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
A few Q's..... You might have mentioned this before, but as the thread grows longer...... Only pc-5.... no AT correct...???? Could you post the base map with the corrections.....?????? Exhaust configuration.....????? I get a pop....once in a while around 3000 rpm, but only one, as I suspect it is the SAS enrichment playing tricks. Only happens at 3K, and only one pop. So we just need to look at what you got.
Don't have a long enough USB lead and im not getting the bike up the spiral stairs to my room

I will see if i can have a go at that soon.

Now it did happen quite a bit before i had the pc5 installed, so its not fair to think it might be because of pc5. Posted it here because my initial hope was the refueling on the pc5 helped stop this thing from happening.
gbtw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:52 PM   #553
ebrabaek OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: El Paso,NM
Oddometer: 4,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by jengel451 View Post
Wild, I just put a Leo exhaust on and have experienced that exact situation in the video 3 times now. Nothing before it.
It is quite normal for bikes to pop on decel. As the mix goes quite lean, the gasses self ignite. Reason you dont hear it with the stock pipe is all the baffles. There will be popping on decel with the LV slip on..... and as will there with other brands.
__________________


Erling
ebrabaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 12:56 PM   #554
ebrabaek OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: El Paso,NM
Oddometer: 4,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbtw View Post
Don't have a long enough USB lead and im not getting the bike up the spiral stairs to my room

I will see if i can have a go at that soon.

Now it did happen quite a bit before i had the pc5 installed, so its not fair to think it might be because of pc5. Posted it here because my initial hope was the refueling on the pc5 helped stop this thing from happening.
LOL.... got it. . The PC-5 for sure is not causing it, on the contrary it should make it a bit better, as fueling is increased, and an overly lean mix is enriched a bit. Reason for the map, is for me to look at what your tuner programmed. Specially if there are any values in the 0% throttle.... It is ok, and bike is fine, but it can be obnoxious to some.
__________________


Erling
ebrabaek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #555
jengel451
1 Cool MotherF#$cker
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Eastern WA
Oddometer: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
It is quite normal for bikes to pop on decel. As the mix goes quite lean, the gasses self ignite. Reason you dont hear it with the stock pipe is all the baffles. There will be popping on decel with the LV slip on..... and as will there with other brands.
Popping is perfectly fine. Hell you should've heard my R1 on Decel with a full race tune gurggle pop pop pop flames pop pop

What is happening is EXACTLY in this vid. http://youtu.be/j7TTIXg0-bE

one pop, maybe through the intake and it dies. Normally when i'm downshifting and blipping to bring the rev's up, and normally if the RPM's are lower like in the vid, anything higher up is fine since the engine is still spinning too fast to cause this problem.

I "Think" that the butterflies are opening before the injectors can add fuel. TPS??
jengel451 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014