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Old 02-19-2013, 09:49 PM   #196
Kelvininin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
My '85 GW was an LTD, which means it was fuel injected. Most of the plastic and rubber parts I'm referring to were part of the fuel injection system, which was way more complicated than the FI systems on most modern bikes. Most of them were deteriorated over the years to the point where they were unusable. The fuel injection system alone has over 25' of vacuum line in various sizes. Fortunately the local auto parts store had that. The GW is an excellent design, and lasts a long time. But everything eventually needs parts. I don't know about other countries, but there is no Japanese aftermarket in the U.S. I ran into the same problem with an '87 Honda Rebel 450. I finally gave up and sold it to another Rebel 450 owner for a parts bike. many bikes have used plastic parts where they should have used metal. Some bikes have a plastic sprocket on the cam, and Kawasaki has used Plastic oil pump gears in several models. I had one, a 1997 Vulcan 1500 Classic. The gear failed and took out the engine. Kawasaki refused to fix it, even though it was a commonly known problem. There was a steel replacement, but it required a complete engine teardown to install, and my engine was already ruined. Another "parts bike"

Yes, Harley uses a plastic cam chain tensioner, not a good idea. But that part will always be available, and the aftermarket will probably come up with an upgrade for it. All parts for All Harleys will likely be available for a long long time.

As for Victory, that remains to be seen. They do have an aftermarket, but it is mostly for accessories and cosmetic parts. So far they have not changed their engine design since the early 2000s. we'll just have to see if they continue to provide parts for it after they have moved on to another design. Victory is a part of Polaris, and their record of product support says probably not.

The Harley is like the small block Chevy (the old one) you can get aftermarket parts for every part in one, including the block and heads themselves. And they are designed to be economically rebuilt 5 times before you need a new block.

If there is a Japanese aftermarket, please tell me where to find it. I would love to own a vintage Japanese bike, and find them on Craigslist all the time. But I won't buy one, because I can't find parts for them.
I guess I am just skewed, I have repowered cars and trucks with the old 350 diesel engine, with zero aftermarket support, it just a matter of finding the parts you need. If there was ever an engine that is regarded as throw away, its the olds 350 diesel. Finding parts wasn't easy, it also isn't impossible. I have also brought diesel chevettes back to life, again, your not going to find a lot of the parts needed at a NAPA, its just a matter of finding the parts needed, no after market support either.

To say something like a vehicle is throwaway is a stretch. You need parts for something, they are out there. Just not as easy as aftermarket.

Vic latest engine the freedom engine was introduced in 2003, and has had incremental changes. When was the last time HD really changed the design of its engine? 1920? Plus the vic engine uses a lot of parts that are found in automotive applications. I do think you could buy a kingpin and ride for 50 years if you wanted and find the parts to fix it.

The only vehicles I have ever regarded as throwaway is something out of India, China, or Korea. Those are throw away.

I think the Japanese have learned their lesson using plastic as drive gears. I know my Tenere doesn't employ any plastic drive gears, and neither does Victory. Hell Victory's primary is gear drive, unlike HD chain. Which one do you think will last longer?

Before I bought my big bore american V-twin, I did my homework on HD and Victory, then a few test rides solidified it. You want a long lasting, low maintenance, American bike, that actually handles well, HD is the runner up. There is now and will be plenty of aftermarket support for the Victory Mill.

Keep in mind, Victory parent company is Polaris, but they are not run by Polaris. The heads of Victory, where heads of manufacturers such as BMW, and HD, but got tired of their way of business.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:13 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Kelvininin View Post
On what planet? They require two oil changes, one for the trans one for the engine, they require valve adjustments, a belt changes is a several hour job.

You can change the oil on the Vic in 15 min, you can change a belt in a half hour in your garage, or in 1 hour on the side of the road with the tool kit (a single hex key), on the side of the road. A HD looses a belt on the road, and its a tow to a garage.

I think HD builds an ok bike, but I never drank the koolaid, and there are far better bikes on the road.
HD requires valve adjustments? Since when? The belts on HD and Victory should last 50,000 miles. I saw someone on another forum with an early '80s belt drive CB or CM250, with over 30,000 miles on it. Original belt, but it had developed a lot of age cracks. He wanted to replace it, but it was no longer available from Honda. And this is one of those parts where a used one won't work.

When it comes to bikes (and cars) you usually buy what you want. If you want an HD, you are not likely to buy a Victory, or vise versa. If you want a PT Cruiser, you are not going to buy a Toyota Matrix, even though they can both be used for the same thing and the layout is similar. There is nothing wrong with Victory that I know about, it's just not what everyone wants. Like sports cars, bikes are usually bought for emotional reasons.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:35 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Kelvininin View Post
On what planet? They require two oil changes, one for the trans one for the engine, they require valve adjustments, a belt changes is a several hour job.
If you're going to bash Harleys you should at least know what you're talking about. A big twin requires changing oil in three holes, not two. Engine, transmission, and primary. Not really a big deal. You pull the drain plugs and let the old stuff run out. Put the plugs back in and refill. Helps to change the spin on filter also. Job is done.

All Harleys have run hydraulic valves for years. They do not require valve adjustments.

I can't really argue times on the belt change because I've never had to do it, but my feeling is that's overstated also. You say you can change the belt on your Vic in an hour on the side of the road. Does that include the time to find and purchase a new one, or do you always carry a spare with you? What, no spare belt in the saddlebag? Then you're going to be looking for a tow as well, so it doesn't really matter much does it?
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:55 PM   #199
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Changing all three holes is not part of a routine engine oil change.

2009+ touring models

Engine oil and filter - every 5000 miles
Primary oil - every 10,000 miles
Transmission oil - every 20,000 miles

I'm not saying I don't do it sooner, it's cheap insurance.

Belt on my old bike had 62k miles with no visible wear on the belt or the sprockets - it is a big deal though if you have to replace the belt. I try to keep up with the issues that Harley's tend to have and broken belts is not one of them.

Adjust the valves someone does not have a clue.
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Old 02-20-2013, 02:47 AM   #200
Kelvininin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davevv View Post
or do you always carry a spare with you? What, no spare belt in the saddlebag? Then you're going to be looking for a tow as well, so it doesn't really matter much does it?
I do carry a spare belt, because I have had a rock get stuck in one while traveling through chip seal in Idaho. The belt had a big old rock stuck in it and survived a spirited ride through Lolo pass.



I stand corrected on HD valve adjustments, the twin cam bike I road in 2010, the dealer told me it needed periodic valve adjustments. As it turns out that stopped around 1999? Which is interesting, Vic has had hydraulic lifters out of the gate.

I have also read a lot of not so positive things about the twin cam engine, which I guess are all addressed in the aftermarket parts. This I think this is crap... You don't have to do that with most Jap bikes, or a Victory. A stock Vic mill is ready to roll for a few 100K miles without having to add aftermarket crap to the engine to make it reliable.

I really don't have a problem with HD, if that is what you want, knock yourself out. I just think there are much better alternatives on the road, that will be easier to maintain, produce more power, handle better, last longer, and have a lower cost of ownership. What I do have a problem with is labeling a whole segments of bikes as "throwaway." Nothing could be further from the truth. If I can find enough parts to repower a chevy with an olds 350 diesel engine, you can find parts for anything, including drive belts.

Ohh I am sorry, you have three oils to change on the drive train of an HD. There is only one drain plug and filter on the Vic. Literally a 15 min oil change. And it really does only take about 30 min to change the belt. There is just no argument, a Victory is easier to maintain.

Here is a very interesting website about HD newer engine.
http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.bi...buyharley.html

Kelvininin screwed with this post 02-20-2013 at 02:58 AM
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:51 AM   #201
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Quite a cat-fight you have going on in here...

As to my answer to the thread question: I woundn't be caught decomposing on a H-D. Or a Victory. Or any cruiser style bike, for that matter. They're not just my cup o' tea. Waaaay too heavy for my style of riding.

I'm sure they're both good bikes. I've heard mostly great stories about both of them.

What do I ride? Ducatis. And Horses.










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Old 02-20-2013, 04:20 AM   #202
Kelvininin
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Originally Posted by M3-SRT8 View Post
Quite a cat-fight you have going on in here...

As to my answer to the thread question: I woundn't be caught decomposing on a H-D. Or a Victory. Or any cruiser style bike, for that matter. They're not just my cup o' tea. Waaaay too heavy for my style of riding.


What do I ride? Ducatis. And Horses.
Ride that Ducati out here to Washington state, and I will give you a run for your money in the twisty mountain roads of the pacific north west on my Big Victory Touring bike. It won't be the first street bike that couldn't hang with me in the mountains.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:08 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Kelvininin View Post
Ride that Ducati out here to Washington state, and I will give you a run for your money in the twisty mountain roads of the pacific north west on my Big Victory Touring bike. It won't be the first street bike that couldn't hang with me in the mountains.
Now you are proving your ignorance......big time.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:28 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-SRT8 View Post
Quite a cat-fight you have going on in here...

As to my answer to the thread question: I woundn't be caught decomposing on a H-D. Or a Victory. Or any cruiser style bike, for that matter. They're not just my cup o' tea. Waaaay too heavy for my style of riding.

I'm sure they're both good bikes. I've heard mostly great stories about both of them.

What do I ride? Ducatis. And Horses.









You appear to like having your picture taken also.

Ducatis and horses are both quite maintenance-intensive. But a blast. Glad you enjoy yours!
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:31 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Kelvininin View Post
Ride that Ducati out here to Washington state, and I will give you a run for your money in the twisty mountain roads of the pacific north west on my Big Victory Touring bike. It won't be the first street bike that couldn't hang with me in the mountains.
Only if the Duc rider is very new, very bad, or very scared.

Come on now, I love my Road King but any sport bike with a halfway decent rider will eat my lunch. And that's ok.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:32 AM   #206
Kelvininin
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Now you are proving your ignorance......big time.

Bring it... We have roads out here that make the tail of the dragon look straight. I would be happy to school you folks on how to ride a bike through the twisties, and I will do it with the cruse set, the music blaring, and sucking on a star bucks macchiato.


Yes... Them are fightin words.

Quote:
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Only if the Duc rider is very new, very bad, or very scared.

Come on now, I love my Road King but any sport bike with a halfway decent rider will eat my lunch. And that's ok.
I don't ride a Road King.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:37 AM   #207
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Wow has this gotten off topic

No Harleys are not made to compete with Ducatis or that type of bike. Why would they even bother, it's not who they're trying to sell to. Someone looking at an Electra Glide could care less about what most Ducs have to offer.

Having owned Ducs in the past they're fine bikes and do everything they should do well (except fuel smoothly at low RPMs) but putting 3-4000 miles on in week isn't one of them. Maybe I'm just a pussy but after a 500 mile day on my 1198 I didn't ride it for a week (not to mention having to stop for gas every 100 miles which just pisses me off).
If your thing is burning up canyon roads and keeping an eye open for cops - the Duc is a fine tool
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:00 AM   #208
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[QUOTE
I stand corrected on HD valve adjustments, the twin cam bike I road in 2010, the dealer told me it needed periodic valve adjustments. As it turns out that stopped around 1999? Which is interesting, Vic has had hydraulic lifters out of the gate.


QUOTE]

My first Harley in 1960, a 1952 model had hydraulic lifters. I believe they started using them in 1948.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:31 AM   #209
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OK I NEED to see this victory vs duck ride... classic.

Some people are just totally full of shit.

My road king is nowhere near the performance bike a victory is. But its a far superior cruiser. Thank god I was shopping for a touring cruiser. I found the best one I could imagine.

The cross roads vic I road felt like a REALLY nice Honda shadow. That's not a compliment. It seems like their engineers spend a lot of time developing anti HD qualities.

No shit one drain bolt? Was I having a hard time with three? Seriously?

A belt change that saves me two hours out of every 3-5 years? Did they Google harley maintenance complaints, write a brochure, then demand a bike to match from engineering? Who cares about those two hours really.

Trying to hustle a heavy touring cruiser is dumb. Don't try to race me. Squid.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:35 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Kelvininin View Post


I stand corrected on HD valve adjustments, the twin cam bike I road in 2010, the dealer told me it needed periodic valve adjustments. As it turns out that stopped around 1999? Which is interesting, Vic has had hydraulic lifters out of the gate.

I have also read a lot of not so positive things about the twin cam engine, which I guess are all addressed in the aftermarket parts. This I think this is crap... You don't have to do that with most Jap bikes, or a Victory. A stock Vic mill is ready to roll for a few 100K miles without having to add aftermarket crap to the engine to make it reliable.

I really don't have a problem with HD, if that is what you want, knock yourself out. I just think there are much better alternatives on the road, that will be easier to maintain, produce more power, handle better, last longer, and have a lower cost of ownership. What I do have a problem with is labeling a whole segments of bikes as "throwaway." Nothing could be further from the truth. If I can find enough parts to repower a chevy with an olds 350 diesel engine, you can find parts for anything, including drive belts.

Ohh I am sorry, you have three oils to change on the drive train of an HD. There is only one drain plug and filter on the Vic. Literally a 15 min oil change. And it really does only take about 30 min to change the belt. There is just no argument, a Victory is easier to maintain.

Here is a very interesting website about HD newer engine.
http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.bi...buyharley.html
You should do a little research before you try to establish your self as an expert on a motorcycle you don't own. re; hydraulic lifters - you still don't have it figured out. Also, I like the idea that my clutch pack is isolated from my engine oil, and vice versa. I am glad you enjoy your Victory so much.
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