If I had a dollar

[Sox Fan]

I sold my RT and replaced it with a GSA because I wanted to explore dirt roads instead or turning around. Dropping an RT is a very expensive thing and they look bad with scratches and dings. My GSA looks great with some dings,scratches and covered in mud.

Just being able to go down those dirt roads and have fun doing it has made the switch to a GSA completely worth it for me. I can still ride to work and take the bride for an ocasional ride as well.

I rented a R1200GS last year and rode all over Death Valley with it. It became really obvious what the limitations of a big adventure bike are for the average rider. Some scary moments and no fun at all at times.

Back to local dirt roads for me. Good thread.

[anotherguy]

whatever..............

[feldjäger]

Originally Posted by Ceri JC

T


I think this is fair comment. I broadly class dirt into one of three categories;
1. "Fire Roads" - Stuff a 2WD car could get down; yes, there's no tarmac, but it'd easily be passable on a street bike with road tyres.
2. "Trail Riding" - Stuff that a well ridden large Adv bike with knobblies could make it through; forest single track trails, water-logged grass covered fields/gentle hills, moderate hill climbs, steep trails made up of 12" diameter rocks.
3. "Proper Offroad" - Trials-type obstacles, large fallen trees, rock gardens, hillclimbs with any section more than a couple of feet long that are vertical/near vertical. Impassable on any bike that isn't a proper dirtbike, or Trials machine. People who claim their GSA can do these things are almost always mistaken.

Think that we lose focus on the point of what an ADV bike is. It's an all around bike, a go where your regular touring bike can't, to hit those roads that aren't paved, and maybe sometimes crossing a small river or two. This proper off-road thing, well lets compare apples to oranges now. I have a mountain bike that will go places your bike can't! I mean how stupid can this thread get?

[JOKER650]

I can't afford to get hurt but can only afford 1 bike also.
Single track is still awsome

[Lion BR]

Originally Posted by Solarbronco

for every time that a guy on a big adventure bike wrecked while trying to ride with us on our 450's and 400's, I could probably buy something at least somewhat cool for my bike. I try to talk em out of going with us, every summer. The more I try, the more proud and boastfull they get and last summer was the 6th in a row that a perfectly beautiful bike and good intentioned rider got broken. One guy is still in a back brace, off work and lost his home and toys, from 2007.

The below was the last one, and resulted in the bike damage, (Crazy more expensive than you would guess for plastic and glass,) two broken ribs, a collapsed lung and much time off work.

I write this as a warning. It may be called an adventure bike, it may even have a few knobs on the tires, but that tall heavy beast will get you seriously hurt or killed off road. I hope someone reads this and thinks twice, even if just one person.

Hope this doesn't rub anyone wrong. I ADV as well, I just have seen too many really bad endings to adventure bikes ridden beyond their limits.

I think you have some good points on your post. But I think you are measuring the wrong variable here, you are focusing on the wrong end of the equation - boastful riders will crash on any bike, including small bikes, real dirt bikes, and will have serious accidents. I see that all the time on the trail.

In my opinion, it is not the bike, it is about people riding above their ability, and riding above their ability for the wrong reason, to use your term: to be "boastful." The question seems to be: does BMW attract riders with ego problems?

Taking the brand aside [because if you used BMW instead of any large displacement motorcycle, such as KTM and Super Tenere, for example, it seems you want to make a different point here than motorcycle size], someone who does know how to ride and has no ego problems, will know if his bike is appropriate or not, will slow down as needed, will take an alternate route as needed.

As an example, I know a great rider who rides his R1200GS with guys riding their small thumpers. And often we get into single track, steep hills, rocky terrain. He slows down when needed. Never seen him crash or even drop it. Sometimes he is chugging along at very slow speeds, clearing single track rocky terrain, standing on the pegs. We wait for him and move as a team.

The point here is that knowing how to ride a motorcycle is not a question of the ability to ride, or the bike, it is about knowing how to measure these abilities, it is about riding knowing the circumstances and context at hand, each one riding his her own ride, which includes knowing what a bike is capable of doing and making appropriate decisions as necessary.

Unless you want to make a point about a specific brand, of course. Because we see what we want to see, target fixation happens on the trail and out of the trail.

Lion

[feldjäger]

Originally Posted by Lion BR

I think you have some good points on your post. But I think you are measuring the wrong variable here, you are focusing on the wrong end of the equation - boastful riders will crash on any bike, including small bikes, real dirt bikes, and will have serious accidents. I see that all the time on the trail.

In my opinion, it is not the bike, it is about people riding above their ability, and riding above their ability for the wrong reason, to use your term: to be "boastful." The question seems to be: does BMW attract riders with ego problems?

Taking the brand aside [because if you used BMW instead of any large displacement motorcycle, such as KTM and Super Tenere, for example, it seems you want to make a different point here than motorcycle size], someone who does know how to ride and has no ego problems, will know if his bike is appropriate or not, will slow down as needed, will take an alternate route as needed.

As an example, I know a great rider who rides his R1200GS with guys riding their small thumpers. And often we get into single track, steep hills, rocky terrain. He slows down when needed. Never seen him crash or even drop it. Sometimes he is chugging along at very slow speeds, clearing single track rocky terrain, standing on the pegs. We wait for him and move as a team.

The point here is that knowing how to ride a motorcycle is not a question of the ability to ride, or the bike, it is about knowing how to measure these abilities, it is about riding knowing the circumstances and context at hand, each one riding his her own ride, which includes knowing what a bike is capable of doing and making appropriate decisions as necessary.

Unless you want to make a point about a specific brand, of course. Because we see what we want to see, target fixation happens on the trail and out of the trail.

Lion

Someone who gets it!

[DADODIRT]

Good reading in this thread.
Thanks to the OP for stating this in black and white.
LionBR hit it right .." each one riding his her own ride "
That's all it boils down to.